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    How many lectures?

    How many times have we all watched Judge judy lecture folks for loaning money to deadbeat boyfriends, relatives, etc...

    Where is the culpability for CC companies that continue to take a risk even when they know that your hole is to deep to climb out of?

    I am not shirking our part in this in any way, but i am convinced that there is some obscure law passed down through the generations of Americans that makes it illegal for an entity to loan money when they know that you won't repay it! I just never heard of it, but I know it must exist.

    With all the yap about BK legislation and the like where are the lectures to the loan companies? Our present society encourages high risk, to be honest where would we be without it? So it seems to be a two sided coin. A venture to set up a mining company requires a huge loan, a great risk, yes. But a $10,000.00 limit for Best Buy to someone making say, 37,000.00 per year? Come on! There has to be some law that makes frivolous lending risk a crime.

    Anyone?
    "You once asked me for advice. You want some now? Never pass up a good thing." Lieutenant Jean Rasczak, Starship Troopers

    Join the Mobile Infantry and save the world. Service guarantees citizenship.

    #2
    As far as I know and have ever heard, I have never heard of frivolous lending, but I agree, the laws need to be changed.

    It's one thing to have a $200,000.00 home, but quite another to have a $20,000.00 credit card line.....
    BUSY running my own credit repair services! Sorry I don't stop in so often any more!

    Comment


      #3
      You make a very valid point, Robivi. It's like the system sets people up for financial failure.

      Comment


        #4
        Hello Robivi, Minnymouth here!!!
        I agee with ya a 100%. Sometimes we are victim of our own circumstances and poor judgememts and decisions we made.
        Yet cc companies will just "take the fall" and "write it off to" BAD DEBT" if they take a loss.
        They make SO MUCH in high interest they can afford to "write it off".... so they don't give a second thought to whether you can afford to pay it back or not.

        Days of our Lives is like a bowl of grapes - some are sweet, some are sour!!

        Minny
        Minny

        "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

        My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

        Comment


          #5
          Hey all!
          Just wanted to put in my 2 bits here. Not that I am any different from anyone else, but why blame credit cards and lenders for our inability to say no or throw the junk away. No one forces anyone to accept a credit card or use it if they do. It is purely a self control issue. I believe that I have finally learned that lesson myself, a little too late I might add, but still, I have learned. No more credit for me (excluding cars and house, of course). If I can't pay in cash, I don't need it that much.

          Cajun

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by CajunWoman
            Hey all!
            Just wanted to put in my 2 bits here. Not that I am any different from anyone else, but why blame credit cards and lenders for our inability to say no or throw the junk away. No one forces anyone to accept a credit card or use it if they do. It is purely a self control issue. I believe that I have finally learned that lesson myself, a little too late I might add, but still, I have learned. No more credit for me (excluding cars and house, of course). If I can't pay in cash, I don't need it that much.

            Cajun
            Being able to accept owership of ones attitude and behavior/actions towards the use of credit is a key ingredient toward being able to live happily ever after with credit. Far to many people, fail to realize this, and simply find themselves burried in debt again within 3 to 5 fives of filing for bankruptcy!

            Congrats! and Good Luck!
            The information provided is not, and should not be considered legal advice. All information provided is only informational and should be verified by a law practioner whenever possible. When confronted with legal issues contact an experienced attorney in your state who specializes in the area of law most directly called into question by your particular situation.

            Comment


              #7
              Wow, you know, even though my Ch 7 went smoothly I cannot imagine ever having to go through another one. The only way I could imagine it would be if it were due to medical problems or a really bad accident. I know you're right, though in saying there are a lot of 'repeat offenders' in bankruptcy.

              Comment


                #8
                I think the bottomline is we are responsible for our own choices when it comes to credit cards. I continually receive credit card offers in the mail and here I am teetering on bankruptcy. The mess I've worked myself into is purely based on some very poor choices on my part. I've had tons of credit cards for years with excellent credit and little debt, and when my downslide began I was only about $1000 in cc debt. I managed to rack up about $24,000 in cc debt and ended up refinancing my house to pay them off. Then, ended up about $14,000 in debt again. Nobody forced me to use those cards. Yes, a divorce changed my circumstances financially but I ignored the reality and didn't change my lifestyle accordingly. Personally, I feel much better about myself when I pay cash. Not only am I learning some very good lessons, but my children are as well. I was teaching them they could have whatever they wanted, and frankly, that simply is not true.

                kaf

                Comment


                  #9
                  individual responsibility and economic & legal structures

                  Hi everyone, This is a fabulous thread. You guys (men and women both, I'm originally from So.Cal. and we say "guys" for everyone), are great.

                  You are pointing out the basic question in American culture: to what degree are we each always individually to blame for our circumstances, and to what degree are there structural features of the economy and legal system that shape our circumstances no matter how great our individual self-control may be?

                  I've always been a big believer in individual responsibility, self-control, and bootstrapping, but a number of things have started to make me wonder about this.

                  * Did you know that the average weekly income for the American worker was 22% higher in 1972 than in 1992? Wages declined every year until the mid nineties, when they started to slowly creep up again. But they still haven't hit the 1972 level. We're now making, on the average, 16% less than in 1972. Really. No kidding.

                  Don't believe me. Download the Economic Report of the President (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/eop/download.html) and check out the tables. It may look hard to understand, but it's not. Just go to Table B-47. It's all there. Look at the column where the wages are adjusted for inflation (it says "in 1982 dollars" at the top of the column.) Average weekly wages:

                  1972: $332
                  1992: $257
                  2004: $278

                  * During this time period the costs for education, housing, and medical--the basics that are difficult to mass produce--have far outpaced the rate of inflation. Particularly college costs, which, as Robivi points out elsewhere in this forum, are inflated by a dismal system of loans that leaves graduates in hundreds of thousands of dollars of undischarageable debt.

                  * During this time period, consumer credit debt increased by 1154%. That's not a typo, it's really one thousand fifty-four percent. Truly. It's also in the President's Report; checkout Table B-77. People were covering these costs by using credit.

                  Changes in the credit loaning laws in the late 1980s allowed creditors to move their businesses to states that were credit card company friendly (you know where they all are: SD, Delaware, and so on), so that the ceilings on interest would be determined in those states, rather than in the states where the credit card holder resided. Thus you can't lobby your state representatives about loansharking interest rates (unless you're in Delaware or South Dakota, in which case you probably have to work for a credit card company! LOL.)

                  An attorney I know was at a social event where he was chatting with a credit loan manager from one of the big lenders. I'm thinking it was MBNA, but I don't recall exactly. The loan manager was complaining that his default rate was too low (!)--only 3%--and he was going to be catching flack for not lending aggressively enough. Said he had to get it up to 5%. This is hearsay, but it is from an attorney I trust, so I tend to trust it. Ironically, we're "helping" that credit manager get to his 5% default rate that proves he loans aggressively enough.

                  Basically, we took the credit. We bit the bait. We had things we needed or wanted: we got sick and had medical bills because we don't have a reasonable system of medical insurance coverage, or we kept failing businesses afloat with our personal credit, or we bought flat screen TVs that we couldn't resist because they are advertised so lucsiously. You all know my case: failing businesses kept afloat and child w/ special medical and education expenses. But one reason isn't particularly "better or worse" than another. We did take the bait.

                  What we can't really blame ourselves for are the larger structural trends that make is so difficult to stay afloat. There are many factors at work there . . . unless we want to talk politics, and in the U.S. that is considered to be very rude. So I won't. Besides, I have gone on and on and fear that I am boring and off topic and making a bit of a screed . . .

                  Thanks for letting me think out loud about all of this. This a very wonderful forum with great people who are doing their best in difficult circumstances.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by mothersvox
                    Hi everyone, This is a fabulous thread. You guys (men and women both, I'm originally from So.Cal. and we say "guys" for everyone), are great.

                    You are pointing out the basic question in American culture: to what degree are we each always individually to blame for our circumstances, and to what degree are there structural features of the economy and legal system that shape our circumstances no matter how great our individual self-control may be?

                    I've always been a big believer in individual responsibility, self-control, and bootstrapping, but a number of things have started to make me wonder about this.

                    * Did you know that the average weekly income for the American worker was 22% higher in 1972 than in 1992? Wages declined every year until the mid nineties, when they started to slowly creep up again. But they still haven't hit the 1972 level. We're now making, on the average, 16% less than in 1972. Really. No kidding.

                    Don't believe me. Download the Economic Report of the President (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/eop/download.html) and check out the tables. It may look hard to understand, but it's not. Just go to Table B-47. It's all there. Look at the column where the wages are adjusted for inflation (it says "in 1982 dollars" at the top of the column.) Average weekly wages:

                    1972: $332
                    1992: $257
                    2004: $278

                    * During this time period the costs for education, housing, and medical--the basics that are difficult to mass produce--have far outpaced the rate of inflation. Particularly college costs, which, as Robivi points out elsewhere in this forum, are inflated by a dismal system of loans that leaves graduates in hundreds of thousands of dollars of undischarageable debt.

                    * During this time period, consumer credit debt increased by 1154%. That's not a typo, it's really one thousand fifty-four percent. Truly. It's also in the President's Report; checkout Table B-77. People were covering these costs by using credit.

                    Changes in the credit loaning laws in the late 1980s allowed creditors to move their businesses to states that were credit card company friendly (you know where they all are: SD, Delaware, and so on), so that the ceilings on interest would be determined in those states, rather than in the states where the credit card holder resided. Thus you can't lobby your state representatives about loansharking interest rates (unless you're in Delaware or South Dakota, in which case you probably have to work for a credit card company! LOL.)

                    An attorney I know was at a social event where he was chatting with a credit loan manager from one of the big lenders. I'm thinking it was MBNA, but I don't recall exactly. The loan manager was complaining that his default rate was too low (!)--only 3%--and he was going to be catching flack for not lending aggressively enough. Said he had to get it up to 5%. This is hearsay, but it is from an attorney I trust, so I tend to trust it. Ironically, we're "helping" that credit manager get to his 5% default rate that proves he loans aggressively enough.

                    Basically, we took the credit. We bit the bait. We had things we needed or wanted: we got sick and had medical bills because we don't have a reasonable system of medical insurance coverage, or we kept failing businesses afloat with our personal credit, or we bought flat screen TVs that we couldn't resist because they are advertised so lucsiously. You all know my case: failing businesses kept afloat and child w/ special medical and education expenses. But one reason isn't particularly "better or worse" than another. We did take the bait.

                    What we can't really blame ourselves for are the larger structural trends that make is so difficult to stay afloat. There are many factors at work there . . . unless we want to talk politics, and in the U.S. that is considered to be very rude. So I won't. Besides, I have gone on and on and fear that I am boring and off topic and making a bit of a screed . . .

                    Thanks for letting me think out loud about all of this. This a very wonderful forum with great people who are doing their best in difficult circumstances.
                    Thanks for sharing this with us!
                    The information provided is not, and should not be considered legal advice. All information provided is only informational and should be verified by a law practioner whenever possible. When confronted with legal issues contact an experienced attorney in your state who specializes in the area of law most directly called into question by your particular situation.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you for indulging my thinking aloud and for running this great forum.

                      Comment

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