Tithe Not Allowed In Chapter 13

[anonymuse]

Well said, Robivi3. I just think that any laws/judgements around the issue can not mention religion. It has to be vague to encompass all charitable contributions and possibly make the distinction between profit and non-profit charities. When they get specifically into tithing for church, that will cause controversy.

[robivi3]

I agree, it's one of those issues that really has to be left to the Courts. It could open a huge can of worms. People also use Charities for personal gain. To me it opens an issue of fraud. Bankrupt means just that, you have really turned over all assets to the Court, it becomes theirs during a BK. Touchy issue, but in truth the Court is administering your funds. "Agree quickly with your adversary before he hauls you before the Judge", on this moment that's as close a quote to the verse as i can get. Gotta go.

[anonymuse]

A little fact that makes a HUGE difference in this case:

http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/

First, the facts of the case do not support the rhetoric. The Statement of Financial Affairs, which is filed in every bankruptcy case, asks the debtor to list all charitable contributions made in the year before filing. The Diagostinos responded "None," making them not the first set of debtors to discover a sudden interest in charitable giving after filing bankruptcy. Also, the Diagostinos proposed to give $100/month in charitable contributions. There is no indication in the judicial opinion that the contributions were intended for a church. Indeed, the words "tithe" or "church" do not appear in the opinion, although the reasoning in the opinion would apply to tithes and church contributions. This is simply not a case of a couple with a long history of making charitable contributions to a church suddenly being deprived of this right in bankruptcy.

The whole Diagostino filing:

http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/files/diagostino.pdf

I had a feeling the media was stirring the pot with this one.

[InLimbo]

A little fact that makes a HUGE difference in this case:

http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/

First, the facts of the case do not support the rhetoric. The Statement of Financial Affairs, which is filed in every bankruptcy case, asks the debtor to list all charitable contributions made in the year before filing. The Diagostinos responded "None," making them not the first set of debtors to discover a sudden interest in charitable giving after filing bankruptcy. Also, the Diagostinos proposed to give $100/month in charitable contributions. There is no indication in the judicial opinion that the contributions were intended for a church. Indeed, the words "tithe" or "church" do not appear in the opinion, although the reasoning in the opinion would apply to tithes and church contributions. This is simply not a case of a couple with a long history of making charitable contributions to a church suddenly being deprived of this right in bankruptcy.

The whole Diagostino filing:

http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/files/diagostino.pdf

I had a feeling the media was stirring the pot with this one.

Thanks so much for that first link anonymuse! Now it all makes so much more sense to me now. I couldn't pull up the last link though with the whole filing. I understand now why they were not granted this expense & have to agree with the judge. As a christian I also agree with "paying back all your debts" and "giving to to Lord first" so right now its very confusing for me. We have proof of our givings going back years so I don't think we will have a problem with this expense, however they may not allow us as much as we normally give I suppose. When I first read this thread, I was so upset at the mention of not allowing to tithe, a duty that is very important to us, but since then I have prayed about this and whatever is the Lord's will, will be done in our case! so NO MORE worring about this for me lol. It's about time I turn it all over to him anyways, stop worring about things I can't change and just be thankful for all I have and be happy for a change! Putting on my happy face now

[anonymuse]

In Limbo, do you think you will be filing Ch 7 or 13?

[InLimbo]

In Limbo, do you think you will be filing Ch 7 or 13?

We will be trying to file a 7 first anonymuse. The worst the lawyer says they can do is say no. Btw, I luv your new pic!

[anonymuse]

Brief update:

RULING ON TITHES
Coincidentally, on Friday three prominent U.S. senators who had strongly
backed bankruptcy reform issued a letter criticizing a recent decision of
the other Northern District bankruptcy judge, Robert E. Littlefield Jr. of
Albany, N.Y. Like Gerling, Littlefield stuck with what Congress wrote in the
statute even though those words may have produced an unintended result.
In In re Diagostino, 06-10384, Littlefield found that the new rules do not
permit debtors to include religious tithes as a necessary expense, a major
departure from prior practice. Consequently, the court found, money that
previously would have been safeguarded for churches and other charities is
now fair game for credit card companies. That ruling did not please
religious conservatives who had spearheaded bankruptcy reform.
On Friday, Sens. Orrin G. Hatch, R-Utah, Charles E. Grassley, R-Iowa, and
Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., wrote to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales,
complaining that Diagostino "was wrongly decided and runs counter to
Congressional intent." They urged Gonzales to direct Chapter 13 trustees
that they are not to go after legitimate tithes

http://www.bkblog.net/blog/_archives/2006/9/20/2344261.html

[pink_amulet]

We were allowed to add Church contributions as part of our CH7 budget...While we do contribute weekly, it is not Tithe...we give what we can.
I do not think it is fair to allow it for CH7 and not CH 13.... bk is bk.....same budget either way,right?

[anonymuse]

If someone put it under an entertainment expense, I bet it wouldn't be questioned. ;)