Allowable education expenses for 6 children? Located in Md

[shrews228]

Hi!

Well...after going back and forth agonizing about whether or not to retain an attorney, I have decided to go Pro Se. I am going over expenses for my Schedule J (yet again. lol) and was wondering the acceptable amount to have for educational expenses? I have 4 kids, and 2 of them take Tang Soo Do, one of them takes dance and (thankfully) my oldest son gets involved with school sports (Free...yay

I'm sure that the trustee won't allow these expenses and was wondering what amounts are acceptable??

Thanks!

Lynda

[HHM]

Let me ask you this...

If you didn't have those expenses in your budget, would you have positive disposable income? If yes, DO NOT GO PRO SE, you will just be shooting yourself in the foot. However, on Schedule J, you list what you actually spend, so you put that number down. The key will be your means test. You WONT be able to take the actual amount on the means test. And given the type of programs, the US trustee might not allow you to take the Education Expenses on line 38 of the means test (the max is $147.92 per child) as your district may not consider martial arts and dance reasonable and necessary.

Also, let's assume the trustee doesn't allow the expenses, are you going to pull your kids from the programs? Do you have enough courage to tell your kids NO?

[shrews228]

Thanks for your help! I'm sure that martial arts and dance won't be considered reasonable and necessary expenses.... I do think my boys need to take the class because they both have ADD/inattentive type, and this helps A LOT with helping them to foucs, self-confidence etc... Do you think that would be an acceptable reason to the trustee? My daughter would totally understand if she couldn't take dance class.

We are - 800.00 a month on the means test.

I think I could tell my kids No...I'm getting rather good at it these days

Thanks!

Lynda

[chicagoannie]

This is probably kind of a dumb question, as I have already filed and my DMI was hugely negative, but...I did not do any "planning" while preparing my expenses. Things that I cannot afford and have not been paying for, like insurance and entertainment, and educational expenses,and clothing, etc, I put down as "0." I did not prepare my expenses as they would be when I am employed, but as they are now, with very little income. That is ok, right, seeing as I was still at a negative DMI?

[shrews228]

We also have a large negative DMI. I think that perhaps I am not understanding the Schedule J. Our income isn't changing, we are filing bk because we didn't have the 900.00 a month that our credit cards cost. The minimums went up in January, I think because of a law the congress passed. We were paying them for a while, but I had to skimp on food, clothes etc... It just got to be too much, so we had to make this decision. The extra curricular activities of my kids cost so little that it wouldn't have made a difference.

So for example, before we decided to file bk I had 150.00 a week to spend on groceries..for 6 people! That was extremely difficult to do. On my schedule J, I am not planning on putting 150.00/ week for groceries since that isn't nearly enough. I am going to list the amount that I can now afford and need to feed my family. I hope that makes sense.

So, on the J, do we put the old amount or the projected future amount? There are categories on the Sched. J that we could never put money into before we went down this road, so do I put "0" there instead of what we are going to budget for in the future?

Help..I'm confused.

thanks!

Lynda

[HHM]

Get a lawyer...it will cost you more in your failed attempt at a pro se case than to just get a lawyer.

[bk2009]

$150/week sounds pretty good to me, we're at about $80/week for a family of 4, including TP, diapers, shampoos, etc. Of course, I'd love to bump that number way up, as it would make things way easier and we could eat way better!