my repoed car

[Patch]

we were discharged on 12/21/09 and did not reaffirm our vehicle.we did intent to reaffirm,but we had a nasty women on the phone who didn't want to fix an error on paperwork and brused us off.

today I received a phone call from an investigator( that is what he said),telling me that our bk would be reversed if he didn't get our car back,because many attempts were made to get it,but they were unable to locate the vehicle.it was in our driverway all along.
and not only our bk would be reversed ,but there would be a warrant for our arrest.
they went to our old adress,and of course the car was not there,I told him that on the BK paperwork,he had our new adress,and he then informed me that it was a bogus adress ,because his "people" could not find our home.
we live on 103 XXXXXX,but they found 101 and 102 ( strange because ,there is no 101 nor 102 ).ok,I know ,I was a bit snappy,but I asked him if he ever heard of a GPS or mapquest.
he then wanted me to drop off the car somewhere else,I refused and we made a time for them to pick up ,at 6pm.
low and behold,they came just after the phone calls at 2pm.
but the repoed guy refused at first to give me any paperwork ,I insisted and got their repoed order( I thought I should have some type of paperwork ,was I wrong?)
now we are down to 1 vehicle that we own free and clear,and one less insurance payment to make.

[NowImDownInIt]

It sounds like it all worked out in the end.. They wouldn't have been able to "reverse" or whatever your BK, but any good attorney would tell you to cooperate fully and in most cases that means meeting somewhere to drop off the car. Either way, it's over. Congrats on your clean slate.

[jlmaca]

It sounds like it all worked out in the end.. They wouldn't have been able to "reverse" or whatever your BK, but any good attorney would tell you to cooperate fully and in most cases that means meeting somewhere to drop off the car. Either way, it's over. Congrats on your clean slate.

My attorney told me that I have no obligation whatsoever to cooperate with the repo idiots. The vehicle is in a garage and they can't touch it. The bank must either sue me for the vehicle or I have to call them and work out a deal. I'm post Chap 7 Dec 09 discharge. The bank has not ever called me or my attorney about the vehicle. Now of course just keeping it in this situation is foolish because they can repo it if they catch it out of the garage and at this rate I will never have a title. So I'm going to call the bank this week and see if I can strike a deal or just give it back.

[BKDefender]

Most repossession statutes in most states only permit repossession without a breach of the peace, unless it is done by a police officer/marshall/sheriff who has additional rights if ordered by the court to do so.

If you park your vehicle in your garage, then the repo company is legally prohibited from opening your garage to get to it. They also are legally prohibited from going into your back yard if the gate is closed. In reality, they'll say the gate was open, so if you have a gate you should put a keyed lock on it so they can't say it was open. All of this is pre-bankruptcy though since there are specific rules governing how turnover of property occurs in BK.

Jlmaca - your attorney is correct on one part but not on the other. You are not required to cooperate with them if you fail to file a statement of intention. But if you filed a statement of intention that said you would surrender the vehicle, then within 30 days after the first scheduled 341 meeting you are required, by 11 USC 521(a)(2)(b) to perform that intention. i.e. you must not intentionally hinder them from repossession the vehicle if you said you were surrendering it and actually have an affirmative duty to cooperate with them to get them the vehicle.

If you're out of BK already, then either you didn't file a statement of intention, or you did not perform the intention as required.

--William

[jlmaca]

Most repossession statutes in most states only permit repossession without a breach of the peace, unless it is done by a police officer/marshall/sheriff who has additional rights if ordered by the court to do so.

If you park your vehicle in your garage, then the repo company is legally prohibited from opening your garage to get to it. They also are legally prohibited from going into your back yard if the gate is closed. In reality, they'll say the gate was open, so if you have a gate you should put a keyed lock on it so they can't say it was open. All of this is pre-bankruptcy though since there are specific rules governing how turnover of property occurs in BK.

Jlmaca - your attorney is correct on one part but not on the other. You are not required to cooperate with them if you fail to file a statement of intention. But if you filed a statement of intention that said you would surrender the vehicle, then within 30 days after the first scheduled 341 meeting you are required, by 11 USC 521(a)(2)(b) to perform that intention. i.e. you must not intentionally hinder them from repossession the vehicle if you said you were surrendering it and actually have an affirmative duty to cooperate with them to get them the vehicle.

If you're out of BK already, then either you didn't file a statement of intention, or you did not perform the intention as required.

--William

What exactly is a "statement of intention"? I did not say I would surrender the vehicle but my attorney did state that I would like to reafirm. But that is as far as it got. So at this point I figure it is my obligation to call them and work something out. Hope that the extent of it.

[BKDefender]

Normally when I file bankruptcy for clients, I file the statement of intention at the same time. The actual statute 11 USC 521(a)(2)(a) requires that within 30 days after the filing date, the debtor, or debtor's attorney, file a statement of intention that says the debtor intends to surrender or retain the secured property. It's official BK form 8. Then within the 30 day period following the first scheduled 341 meeting the debtor is required to perform the intention. The statement of intention is provided to the secured creditor so they know they should send a reaffirmation agreement or that they should prepare a motion for relief from stay to file after the 341 so they can take possession and sell the secured asset as soon as possible (it saves additional storage fees if they get the car faster.)

If you said you would reaffirm then the bank/lender should have sent you a reaffirmation agreement. If they didn't and you don't intend to keep the car, then it's really up to them to contact you to get the car. You can't perform your intention if the secured creditor won't send you a reaffirmation agreement. They don't have to reaffirm though - Ford doesn't seem to like to reaffirm, they would rather take the car back and take the loss then risk having to repossess the vehicle later if you go late on it again. Most other lenders would rather have your money than the car though.

If they didn't send you a reaffirmation agreement and you still have the car, then I would agree even more with your attorney. They can't dun you or sue you for the amount owed - they can only sue you for replevin or if your case has not been closed yet, they can do a motion for turnover to get the BK court to order you to turn it over.

The easiest thing? Just call them and tell them they can come and get it during this time and you'll peacefully hand them the keys.

--William

[jlmaca]

"The easiest thing? Just call them and tell them they can come and get it during this time and you'll peacefully hand them the keys."

But actually I'd like to keep it. I owe $5000 on a 2004 Trailblazer SUV gas guzzler... that nobody wants. Like I said I have received nothing from them. It's almost like they don't want anything to with this mess. Will they want the $5000 right away? If they do a reafirmation, is that reafirming the original loan which was $650 a month, more than I can afford. I am hoping they will take $200 a month till paid, am I dreaming here?

[BKDefender]

Ahh....that changes everything. A reaffirmation is usually a reaffirmation of the current loan on the same terms. If you can't afford the old terms, then you could reopen your case and try to 'redeem' the vehicle for its fair market value under code section 722. (722redemption.com).

--William

[jlmaca]

I tried the 722 loan people awhile back thinking that might be a good way to keep the vehicle. Basically they said the car is too old and too high mileage. Then proceeded to say, however, we will finance one of "our" low mileage vehicles. Sounds fishy to me. I'm thinking I should just call them and lay out the facts without reopening my case and see where the chips fall.

[BKDefender]

If you have an adequate income, you might be able to get a mid to high interest loan to pay off the balance then after a year refinance when your credit recovers.

--William

[jlmaca]

If you have an adequate income, you might be able to get a mid to high interest loan to pay off the balance then after a year refinance when your credit recovers.

--William

That's a good idea but I was thinking that since I'm post chapter 7 Dec 09 with a credit rating of 610 at best, I would not be a viable candidate for a loan of any sort.

I do thank you very much for all of your input. I know you attorney guys are very busy these days.

[olivies]

Most repossession statutes in most states only permit repossession without a breach of the peace, unless it is done by a police officer/marshall/sheriff who has additional rights if ordered by the court to do so.

If you park your vehicle in your garage, then the repo company is legally prohibited from opening your garage to get to it. They also are legally prohibited from going into your back yard if the gate is closed. In reality, they'll say the gate was open, so if you have a gate you should put a keyed lock on it so they can't say it was open.
--William

Our vehicle was in our garage, our garage door was open (it always was middle of the day). Imagine my surprise when I stepped into the garage and found the vehicle gone. Police said it doesn't matter that the repo man had to physically step into my garage to hook up the vehicle- as long as they didn't open the door to the garage themselves. To me that was breach of peace, but the sheriff refused to do anything.

[jlmaca]

Our vehicle was in our garage, our garage door was open (it always was middle of the day). Imagine my surprise when I stepped into the garage and found the vehicle gone. Police said it doesn't matter that the repo man had to physically step into my garage to hook up the vehicle- as long as they didn't open the door to the garage themselves. To me that was breach of peace, but the sheriff refused to do anything.

Yes, the repo guys will push the limits to the extreme, its food on their table! I've had them in my driveway freaking out for hours because I would not open the garage door. If I wasn't home and left it unlocked they'd open it. Nothing worse than leaving a property without the vehicle, money down the drain. If my car was not LOCKED up it would have been gone a long time ago. I can count at least 3 attempts to repo. It's much to their favor because locking it in the garage is the ONLY way to prevent repo. Any trip to grocery store, movie, mom's whatever and the vehicle is fair game.

[BKDefender]

olivies,
The police are correct - if they don't have to open a door or gate, then they can take it. You can have it hidden behind your house with no fence and they can push it out and take it. Now - they're not supposed to open the garage door, but if you don't have it locked then they'll just lie and say it was already open - you can't prove any damage to force it unlocked so it's your word against theirs and sadly they're usually going to win that argument.
I was born and raised in Texas and only moved to Nevada about 5-6 years ago. I'm not sure if it's been repealed or not, but there was a very old law on the books that allows someone to use deadly force to stop a suspected thief at night. So in theory a person could shoot and even kill the repo man and claim the person thought the repo man was stealing your vehicle. I don't condone that though, of course, but it does keep the repo guys on their toes in Texas.
Whenever I catch Operation Repo on TV my wife makes me change it because I spend the whole time yelling that they can't do THAT, they can't do THAT EITHER, and they can't do THAT - and I would so sue their ass if they even tried it. It makes for lively entertainment.

--William

[nokia123]

olivies,
The police are correct - if they don't have to open a door or gate, then they can take it. You can have it hidden behind your house with no fence and they can push it out and take it. Now - they're not supposed to open the garage door, but if you don't have it locked then they'll just lie and say it was already open - you can't prove any damage to force it unlocked so it's your word against theirs and sadly they're usually going to win that argument.
I was born and raised in Texas and only moved to Nevada about 5-6 years ago. I'm not sure if it's been repealed or not, but there was a very old law on the books that allows someone to use deadly force to stop a suspected thief at night. So in theory a person could shoot and even kill the repo man and claim the person thought the repo man was stealing your vehicle. I don't condone that though, of course, but it does keep the repo guys on their toes in Texas.
Whenever I catch Operation Repo on TV my wife makes me change it because I spend the whole time yelling that they can't do THAT, they can't do THAT EITHER, and they can't do THAT - and I would so sue their ass if they even tried it. It makes for lively entertainment.

--William

i love that show, i tell people what they need to do to keep the repo man away for a while.