Attn: Unemployed & Tier 5 Extension Thread

[helpme2010]

Well, tobee, you, and that professor are all wrong. That "professor" should have his degree revoked for not understanding how the monthly unemployment rate is calculated from the CPS, and NOT the state UI numbers. This is not a matter of opinion. Give me the professors name and school and I will be happy to question him. Perhaps he is senile.

It could not be explained more clearly than in my prior post here. And tobee you failed to understand anything from my post it appears - since you are still repeating your complete nonsense about the BLS monthly unemployment rate. I hope there is someone reading this thread that can read and comprehend facts.

The 17% rate quoted is the U-6 published monthly by the BLS. Is is NOT based on UI either. See the Unemployment thread sticky for an explanation of this. I am seriously amazed that people can read a factual explanation and STILL come up with the opposite conclusion. It is nothing to be amused about... I'm beginning to appreciate why our founding fathers felt some of the population were not qualified to vote!

Whatmoney, not to be disrespectful, but you are violating the rules of this board by attacking another member and calling them names. Please read the post by the mod that all of us were required to follow. That 17.5% I quoted is accurate, what my economics professor told me is reality. I'm not sure if I am quoting the Bureau of Labor Statistics in my 17% but this is the real unemployment situation when you factor in true life labor statistics, not the 9% you see quoted in the news.

I also watch C-SPAN, CNBC, CNN, and other news stations on a regular basis. The only station that seems to argue against these stations is FOX, so hopefully you are not quoting from FOX news.

And why are you presenting an argument in this situation? The point of the post is about the high unemployment rate and those on unemployment that may be losing their extensions, not an economics refresher. Those on unemployment are trying to survive and put food on their tables to feed their families, until they are able to find jobs again. Nothing less, nothing more.

[WhatMoney]

I have to agree with tobee43 in the fact that I took an economics class last year, and the teacher and book stated that unemployment statistics do not calculate those that fall off the unemployment payroll or those that say take a part time job at Walmart making a fraction of what they made when they were full time with a true career.

This is how I was able to run calculations in class showing that if unemployment was quoted as say 9%, it was really around 17.5%, possibly a couple points higher. So right now, I would go with 17% or higher as the TRUE unemployment rate.

Well, tobee, you, and that professor are all wrong. That "professor" should have his degree revoked for not understanding how the monthly unemployment rate is calculated from the CPS, and NOT the state UI numbers. This is not a matter of opinion. Give me the professors name and school and I will be happy to question him. Perhaps he is senile.

It could not be explained more clearly than in my prior post here. And tobee you failed to understand anything from my post it appears - since you are still repeating your complete nonsense about the BLS monthly unemployment rate. I hope there is someone reading this thread that can read and comprehend facts.

The 17% rate quoted is the U-6 published monthly by the BLS. Is is NOT based on UI either. See the Unemployment thread sticky for an explanation of this. I am seriously amazed that people can read a factual explanation and STILL come up with the opposite conclusion. It is nothing to be amused about... I'm beginning to appreciate why our founding fathers felt some of the population were not qualified to vote!

[Fallonedward]

Nov 30th is the cut off for everyone, no matter what extension level they are at. My hubby went to the unemployment office today and was turned away as his 26 weeks don't expire till Monday, so he has to go back on Monday to apply for the 13 week extension. The lady told him today that after that 13 weeks that is it for hubby unless an extension comes up which the UI case worker felt was very unlikely. She told hubby that things will get crazy when you have millions of people with no money. scary indeed

Tobee43, I really feel for you. Yikes, I thought it could go the full 99 weeks, at least for those states with high unemployment rates. So the Nov 30th really is a serious cut off for everyone, no matter what extension level they are at???

I will be looking at federal assistance programs in December that may help a small amount with assistance, but if they don't extend this, that is going to really put me in a scary situation.

The timing of these steps is so scary because you don't know when any of them are going to happen or if they will happen in that order. I can only imagine how many millions of people fall into a similar situation as us.

I don't even want to mention a list of stressful items, such as the arguments I get into with my girlfriend because of a tight budget, the stress of seeing family and them asking about your situation (or praying for you to get a job at the dinner table on Thanksgiving, while they are doing financially well, etc. etc. etc.).

[tobee43]

oh!! i posted this "bad" news and really should have just posted it here...

http://www.examiner.com/unemployment...ly-for-jobless

[tobee43]

Tobee, this is why I posted up this thread. I am hoping with hope that they pass
S.3706 Americans Want to Work Act (to extend UI for 5 months) or some other type of emergency UI extension benefits.

I know its not looking very promising, but there is a chance next week and the 29th &
30th for the bill to be pushed through. This did happen I think during summer when they couldn't pass the extension benefits and I remember the checks stopped coming in for several weeks or so. This was another reason I filed BK.

But then they pushed through an extension bill.

I know the republicans will push hard again against this extension, but I believe the democrats can use this as a leverage for compromise with bills the republicans want (such as trading the extension of tax benefits for the wealthy for including an extension of UI benefits for the poor). Who knows, just wishful thinking on my part.

Also the house, senate, and presidency are still under control of the democrats for November and December, so even a lame duck congress still has a shot at pushing this through if they push hard. Who knows, just wishful thinking on my part.

it's been an excellent post helpme....we are on the same page here...hoping and pokin that congress will see it's way clear to extend the bill.

it's going to leave a really bad taste in the mouth of many of us going through this, we feel abandoned and really left out in the cold by a government that i first thought would fight hard for the "people"...NOT the banks...and the agi's etc.

i'm NOT asking for any govenment monies here...i just want WHAT WE PAID in...that's it...fair and square.

i'll be thinking those thoughts right along with you helpme!!

[helpme2010]

helpme...i don't think in all our our years together we have fought and argued as much as we have in these past 24 months...thankfully we are JUST calming down...but it's been a rough ride even for the strongest relationships.

yes, we called the ui office and she said nov. is IT....for us (last check i think issued the first week in dec), and we should have 50 more weeks left to hit that magic 99 number that everyone refers to. we also thought we just caught in the crossfires of the bill and we would be included by somehow being grandfathered in...in other words right in the middle of us collecting.

apparently, according to her ...no way...since we were in the 2nd tier...that's it..

Tobee, this is why I posted up this thread. I am hoping with hope that they pass
S.3706 Americans Want to Work Act (to extend UI for 5 months) or some other type of emergency UI extension benefits.

I know its not looking very promising, but there is a chance next week and the 29th &
30th for the bill to be pushed through. This did happen I think during summer when they couldn't pass the extension benefits and I remember the checks stopped coming in for several weeks or so. This was another reason I filed BK.

But then they pushed through an extension bill.

I know the republicans will push hard again against this extension, but I believe the democrats can use this as a leverage for compromise with bills the republicans want (such as trading the extension of tax benefits for the wealthy for including an extension of UI benefits for the poor). Who knows, just wishful thinking on my part.

Also the house, senate, and presidency are still under control of the democrats for November and December, so even a lame duck congress still has a shot at pushing this through if they push hard. Who knows, just wishful thinking on my part.

[tobee43]

Tobee43, I really feel for you. Yikes, I thought it could go the full 99 weeks, at least for those states with high unemployment rates. So the Nov 30th really is a serious cut off for everyone, no matter what extension level they are at???

I will be looking at federal assistance programs in December that may help a small amount with assistance, but if they don't extend this, that is going to really put me in a scary situation.

The timing of these steps is so scary because you don't know when any of them are going to happen or if they will happen in that order. I can only imagine how many millions of people fall into a similar situation as us.

I don't even want to mention a list of stressful items, such as the arguments I get into with my girlfriend because of a tight budget, the stress of seeing family and them asking about your situation (or praying for you to get a job at the dinner table on Thanksgiving, while they are doing financially well, etc. etc. etc.).

helpme...i don't think in all our our years together we have fought and argued as much as we have in these past 24 months...thankfully we are JUST calming down...but it's been a rough ride even for the strongest relationships.

yes, we called the ui office and she said nov. is IT....for us (last check i think issued the first week in dec), and we should have 50 more weeks left to hit that magic 99 number that everyone refers to. we also thought we just caught in the crossfires of the bill and we would be included by somehow being grandfathered in...in other words right in the middle of us collecting.

apparently, according to her ...no way...since we were in the 2nd tier...that's it..

[tobee43]

tobee43, I remember having this exact discussion with the professor, and one of the interesting subjects that came up was discussing people that simply gave up looking for jobs, so they were no longer counted in the statistics, those that were forced to take that really cheap job instead of the higher career salary they were normally earning. We also discussed how many people would end up say living on their brothers couch or moving back in with their parents (not counted).

I agree with you, very scary.

and, i also believe your figures to much for accurate...it is discussed and examined in miro-economics even closer...but you had a good professor!!

[helpme2010]

one thing i do want to mention as well......we never rec'd the 99 weeks.....we are cut off over 50 weeks early because of the nov cut off date...slapped hard...we feel.

Tobee43, I really feel for you. Yikes, I thought it could go the full 99 weeks, at least for those states with high unemployment rates. So the Nov 30th really is a serious cut off for everyone, no matter what extension level they are at???

I will be looking at federal assistance programs in December that may help a small amount with assistance, but if they don't extend this, that is going to really put me in a scary situation.

The timing of these steps is so scary because you don't know when any of them are going to happen or if they will happen in that order. I can only imagine how many millions of people fall into a similar situation as us.

I don't even want to mention a list of stressful items, such as the arguments I get into with my girlfriend because of a tight budget, the stress of seeing family and them asking about your situation (or praying for you to get a job at the dinner table on Thanksgiving, while they are doing financially well, etc. etc. etc.).

[tobee43]

doni49, I am in an identical position as you. My girlfriend does not get unemployment compensation, so I too will be pretty screwed. I need this discharge to take effect ASAP ANDDDDDDDD I need to stay in my house as long as possible, WHILLLLLE I try to find a job ASAP, THENNNNNNN find a place to rent ASAP!!!!!

Lets go through this complicated set of steps and the order it has to work for me:

1. Discharge quickly
2. Unemployment extension - please please please continue it using Tier 5 extension
3. Stay in my house as long as possible while looking for job
4. Find a job
5. Find a place to rent

I will burn through cash at a fast rate as soon as UI expires in a few weeks, then I will go insanely fast through cash if I lose this house.

This is very scary!!!

you have to HOLD tight helpme...i know it's a hard thing to do.

i like your list...it's looking good for me!! hope for you, it goes exactly like you have listed.

one thing i do want to mention as well......we never rec'd the 99 weeks.....we are cut off over 50 weeks early because of the nov cut off date...slapped hard...we feel.

[helpme2010]

that is an alarming "real" number to swallow.

tobee43, I remember having this exact discussion with the professor, and one of the interesting subjects that came up was discussing people that simply gave up looking for jobs, so they were no longer counted in the statistics, those that were forced to take that really cheap job instead of the higher career salary they were normally earning. We also discussed how many people would end up say living on their brothers couch or moving back in with their parents (not counted).

I agree with you, very scary.

[helpme2010]

I am really concerned about this because when my benefits run out, I won't have a spouse's income to assist me. But yet, I still need to buy medications, food etc.

doni49, I am in an identical position as you. My girlfriend does not get unemployment compensation, so I too will be pretty screwed. I need this discharge to take effect ASAP ANDDDDDDDD I need to stay in my house as long as possible, WHILLLLLE I try to find a job ASAP, THENNNNNNN find a place to rent ASAP!!!!!

Lets go through this complicated set of steps and the order it has to work for me:

1. Discharge quickly
2. Unemployment extension - please please please continue it using Tier 5 extension
3. Stay in my house as long as possible while looking for job
4. Find a job
5. Find a place to rent

I will burn through cash at a fast rate as soon as UI expires in a few weeks, then I will go insanely fast through cash if I lose this house.

This is very scary!!!

[tobee43]

I have to agree with tobee43 in the fact that I took an economics class last year, and the teacher and book stated that unemployment statistics do not calculate those that fall off the unemployment payroll or those that say take a part time job at Walmart making a fraction of what they made when they were full time with a true career.

This is how I was able to run calculations in class showing that if unemployment was quoted as say 9%, it was really around 17.5%, possibly a couple points higher. So right now, I would go with 17% or higher as the TRUE unemployment rate.

that is an alarming "real" number to swallow.

[helpme2010]

I have to agree with tobee43 in the fact that I took an economics class last year, and the teacher and book stated that unemployment statistics do not calculate those that fall off the unemployment payroll or those that say take a part time job at Walmart making a fraction of what they made when they were full time with a true career.

This is how I was able to run calculations in class showing that if unemployment was quoted as say 9%, it was really around 17.5%, possibly a couple points higher. So right now, I would go with 17% or higher as the TRUE unemployment rate.

[tobee43]

Unemployment Insurance is NOT used by the BLS to calculate national unemployment numbers. So all your questions and comments above are mute. It's a common misconception that UI determines the unemployment rate among Internet laymen (and laywomen). Not sure why that is. No matter how long you have been unemployed you are counted as long as you still want to and are able to work, in one or more of the U-1 through U-6 unemployment categories. The BLS explains it all very clearly here:

Because unemployment insurance records relate only to persons who have applied for such benefits, and because it is impractical to actually count every unemployed person each month, the Government conducts a monthly sample survey called the Current Population Survey (CPS) to measure the extent of unemployment in the country. The CPS has been conducted in the United States every month since 1940 when it began as a Work Projects Administration program. It has been expanded and modified several times since then.

What do the unemployment insurance (UI) figures measure?
The UI figures are not produced by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Statistics on insured unemployment in the United States are collected as a by-product of UI programs. Workers who lose their jobs and are covered by these programs typically file claims ("initial claims") that serve as notice that they are beginning a period of unemployment. Claimants who qualify for benefits are counted in the insured unemployment figures (as "continued claims"). Data on UI claims are maintained by the Employment and Training Administration, an agency of the U.S. Department of Labor, and are available on the Internet at: http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/unemploy/claims.asp .
[NOTE: weekly unemployment insurance claims issued by each state are unrelated to the monthly BLS unemployment rates. You appear to be mixing up two entirely different set of numbers.]

The UI data are NOT used to measure total unemployment because they exclude several important groups. To begin with, not all workers are covered by UI programs. For example, self-employed workers, unpaid family workers, workers in certain not-for-profit organizations, and several other small (primarily seasonal) worker categories are not covered. In addition, the insured unemployed exclude the following:

* Unemployed workers who have exhausted their benefits.
* Unemployed workers who have not yet earned benefit rights (such as new entrants or reentrants to the labor force).
* Disqualified workers whose unemployment is considered to have resulted from their own actions rather than from economic conditions; for example, a worker discharged for misconduct on the job.
* Otherwise eligible unemployed persons who do not file for benefits.

Much more information here in this FAQ: http://www.bls.gov/cps/faq.htm

good morning whatmoney....it's so nice to see you!!

i appreciate and respect your confidence in our governments stats...and their supposed methodology in the collecting of such data.

there is absolutely no way that they can keep accurate statistics on those that have dropped off the rolls and sailed into the river of flame and fire. i also appreciate your generous believe that everything "they" write with respect to the information obtained by the "Employment and Training Administration, an agency of the U.S. Department of Labor", as correct and righteous.


but it's simply not....and actually based on the information you have provided MANY are being left out of the actual "number"....it may even be upwards of over 13% for all we know once we add in ,

self-employed workers, unpaid family workers, workers in certain not-for-profit organizations, and several other small (primarily seasonal) worker categories are not covered. In addition, the insured unemployed exclude the following:

* Unemployed workers who have exhausted their benefits.
* Unemployed workers who have not yet earned benefit rights (such as new entrants or reentrants to the labor force).
* Disqualified workers whose unemployment is considered to have resulted from their own actions rather than from economic conditions; for example, a worker discharged for misconduct on the job.
* Otherwise eligible unemployed persons who do not file for benefits