Some States May Ban Credit Checks for Employment

[Flamingo]

They are already verifying education and references, Flamingo. And I wasn't trying to 'put words in mouth'... it seems clearly, through reading your posts on the issue, as if you are indeed fond of the checks, and for reasons that do not, IMO, warrant the check.

The extra 'hurdle' for illegal immigrants is, in practice, nothing more than an fence for everyone else. If a business owner really wants to herd a handful of immigrants into their workplace, they will find a way to skirt the law, or just import the cheapest worker on a visa.

The stigma of bankruptcy (and bad credit in general) is bad, but it's definitely not criminal and IMO should never serve as a fence to bar employment, ever.

I am neither for nor against credit checks; I am certainly not "fond" of them due to any unfairness of the situation or if one's credit report is not correct, needs revision, and shows up badly when it is really not that bad...I believe it is up to those who own and run their businesses to make their decisions as to who they hire and their hiring/firing policies. Credit checks have good and bad points. Good in that it could keep someone who truly cannot control their finances or handle money/credit from making a mess of the business's finances or clients' accounts if hired in a financial capacity; bad in that it unfortunately makes it difficult for those hit with hard times due to this economy and suffering from job loss or major medical situations/bills through no fault of their own to find another job. I've seen folks with bad credit/BK hired and do fantastic jobs and I've seen the same category hired that took advantage of the situation and opened up credit card accounts under their bosses' name and controlled all the funds between the accounts and kept it hidden until discovered by an audit when something was amiss. By the time of discovery, thousands and thousands had been taken out in cash advances. The latter is what employers are afraid of.

There is no easy answer to this for anyone...I would make myself as marketable as possible by taking extra courses, expanding skills, etc. to stand out more over the competition and to hopefully offset somewhat any stigma as to any BK filing.

Pizza I am totally aware of where you are coming from; the main thing is that whether we like it or not, BK is still going to be an issue for anyone who files for some time yet and hopefully as time goes on much of that stigma will go away. This economy has put many people in the position of having to file through no fault of their own and not going crazy with credit cards and that should not be a factor against them for anything, especially in trying to find another job.

[Flamingo]

It is, of course, very difficult to tell what the reason is for the employer to turn you down. There is intense competition, and most employers consider sending a 'why not' letter to be counterproductive. One thing that may help, however, is that there was no soft pull from the company, which could mean they just went with another candidate without doing a check at all.

You don't need a "soft pull" to find bankruptcy - it comes up on a background check if it is indicated to look for that. While a bankruptcy appears on one's credit report for 7 to 10 years, it is forever on public records. The entire bankruptcy can be viewed on Pacer or in the federal courthouse itself if local if an employer wants to take it that far but I need to say to him that if he made it that far in the hiring/elimination process, his not getting the position was probably not due to his filing. Unfortunately, he will never know what was in that folder. When/if credit checks are eliminated, we all can bet on seeing these dreaded words more and more on employment applications..."Have you EVER filed bankruptcy."

[Pizza]

During what was supposed to be the "final" interview with company bigwig for a job, I realized bigwig was reading a public records report about me. The only negative on that report would have been my bankruptcy - I was never sued, never arrested, never owned real estate, never had a tax lien, never had any other issues I can think of that would be public records. I didn't get the job. I checked my credit report a few weeks later - no inquiry from bigwigs company (or anyone else). While it will be great if credit checks for employment are banned, it may not be all that helpful for those of us who have actually filed.

It is, of course, very difficult to tell what the reason is for the employer to turn you down. There is intense competition, and most employers consider sending a 'why not' letter to be counterproductive. One thing that may help, however, is that there was no soft pull from the company, which could mean they just went with another candidate without doing a check at all.

[Pizza]

They are already verifying education and references, Flamingo. And I wasn't trying to 'put words in mouth'... it seems clearly, through reading your posts on the issue, as if you are indeed fond of the checks, and for reasons that do not, IMO, warrant the check.

The extra 'hurdle' for illegal immigrants is, in practice, nothing more than an fence for everyone else. If a business owner really wants to herd a handful of immigrants into their workplace, they will find a way to skirt the law, or just import the cheapest worker on a visa.

The stigma of bankruptcy (and bad credit in general) is bad, but it's definitely not criminal and IMO should never serve as a fence to bar employment, ever.

[meateater]

During what was supposed to be the "final" interview with company bigwig for a job, I realized bigwig was reading a public records report about me. The only negative on that report would have been my bankruptcy - I was never sued, never arrested, never owned real estate, never had a tax lien, never had any other issues I can think of that would be public records. I didn't get the job. I checked my credit report a few weeks later - no inquiry from bigwigs company (or anyone else). While it will be great if credit checks for employment are banned, it may not be all that helpful for those of us who have actually filed.

[Flamingo]

Pretty much everywhere: 'opening the doors to illegals' and whatnot. I never understood what the outstanding balance on someone's MasterCard has to do with screening illegals, but feel free to elaborate. If laws are passed to eliminate the use of credit checks, I'm confident that ammendments can be passed to ensure RELEVANT information, such as citizenship and education, could be verified elsewhere. Actually, they already can.

It is already illegal to discriminate against someone solely for filing bankruptcy, but the bankruptcy IS a visible public record. So actually, the filing should not even be accessible to an employer, since its visibility defeats the purpose of the anti-discrimination law. You seem to feel comfortable explaining your situation to a potential employer, but the reality is that if these checks become so routine that virtually 100% of employers use them as a weeder - all the way from janitor to flipping burgers (if they really are burgers) at McDonald's, prospective candidates will not make it to an interview to explain anything. Bad credit = Paper shredder... NEXT... and there lies the path to perpetual unemployment for millions. That's what I truly believe is in the works.

What I mentioned as to illegal persons in this country and credit checks was being discussed in our office and in other legal offices across the nation that if credit checks are eliminated, it will just make it easier for illegals to take more jobs away from citizens; granted there are other features in place to weed out illegals; it would just eliminates one more thing they would have to get past and we all know how slipshod some hiring practices are. By me mentioning that that does not mean I am "fond" of credit checks; you are putting words into my mouth. Eliminating credit checks, while beneficial for those having to file bankruptcy for good reasons, could be detrimental to others as companies will probably put other policies into place to even further check out people; i.e., contacting colleges to verify degrees, contacting more references, doing more thorough background checks, etc., etc. Again, these are decisions that are made by people who own their companies or run their businesses; if they choose to be selective about people they hire, that is their choice. In today's world it doesn't take much to find out everything about a person from the day you were born to the present. If something shows up that the hiring party doesn't like on your records or background or past employment history, they don't have to hire you.

It is illegal to discriminate solely for filing bankruptcy if one is employed and fired for that reason only. Many companies inform you upon application that if you have a bankruptcy on your record, you will not get the job. That is company policy with policies put in place by their legal departments and upper executive management.

Again, change will be a long time coming for this - changes are still taking place for insurance credit profiling with states gradually eliminating that practice one by one. But many states still have the practice. So if one is in the midst of filing now or has a past BK on their records, one can only do the best they can for the moment and do the best they can to get the job. It's all about selling yourself and your skills over the competition.

The problem with a BK is that it is on your credit reports for a very long time. That is one of the blackmarks we all face or have had to face for filing and something we will have to deal with as long as it shows on there.

[Pizza]

I moved from the UK and the last job I was in required a background check. Never heard credit reports ever used before for any company.

A credit check is often part of the background check 'package'. Usage varies from company to company and what constitutes a 'background check' is (probably intentionally) hidden.

[nc73]

I moved from the UK and the last job I was in required a background check. Never heard credit reports ever used before for any company.

[Pizza]

Where in here did I say I was fond of these checks?

Pretty much everywhere: 'opening the doors to illegals' and whatnot. I never understood what the outstanding balance on someone's MasterCard has to do with screening illegals, but feel free to elaborate. If laws are passed to eliminate the use of credit checks, I'm confident that ammendments can be passed to ensure RELEVANT information, such as citizenship and education, could be verified elsewhere. Actually, they already can.

And I have been through looking for work within several weeks after filing and had to deal with the worry myself which I have mentioned on here in previous postings as to my situation. Before you cast stones at any poster, ask. Reality bites hard. You can't change facts and you can't change what goes on as to hiring with each specific company - if credit checks are eventually banned, as others have stated on here there are other ways to evaluate prospective employees and a BK is easily found if someone is looking to see if a prospective employee filed. None of us like to deal with the stigma of bankruptcy and argue it should not affect us at all....but it does and it will for a while so the best way to deal with it as to employment is to research the company/business to which one is applying as to their hiring practices, review employee manuals/company policy if you file bankruptcy while employed and be open and honest about your situation if asked or if it bothers you. And as I always state, never let a BK stand in your way of applying for any job. Do your homework and go for it.

It is already illegal to discriminate against someone solely for filing bankruptcy, but the bankruptcy IS a visible public record. So actually, the filing should not even be accessible to an employer, since its visibility defeats the purpose of the anti-discrimination law. You seem to feel comfortable explaining your situation to a potential employer, but the reality is that if these checks become so routine that virtually 100% of employers use them as a weeder - all the way from janitor to flipping burgers (if they really are burgers) at McDonald's, prospective candidates will not make it to an interview to explain anything. Bad credit = Paper shredder... NEXT... and there lies the path to perpetual unemployment for millions. That's what I truly believe is in the works.

[Flamingo]

Whatever you say, Flamingo. The average job lasts less than five years these days. I doubt you would remain fond of these checks if you were on the job searching end of the equation.

Where in here did I say I was fond of these checks? And I have been through looking for work within several weeks after filing and had to deal with the worry myself which I have mentioned on here in previous postings as to my situation. Before you cast stones at any poster, ask. Reality bites hard. You can't change facts and you can't change what goes on as to hiring with each specific company - if credit checks are eventually banned, as others have stated on here there are other ways to evaluate prospective employees and a BK is easily found if someone is looking to see if a prospective employee filed. None of us like to deal with the stigma of bankruptcy and argue it should not affect us at all....but it does and it will for a while so the best way to deal with it as to employment is to research the company/business to which one is applying as to their hiring practices, review employee manuals/company policy if you file bankruptcy while employed and be open and honest about your situation if asked or if it bothers you. And as I always state, never let a BK stand in your way of applying for any job. Do your homework and go for it.

I wish I could hold hands and tell everyone everything will be fine and OK but the real world is not like that. One has to do the best they can in the situation they are in at the specific time.

[MSbklawyer]

One of the best persons I ever hired, I hired because she had filed for bankruptcy.

I had the most dingbat secretary Hollywood casting could have ever dreamed up. After two years of trying, I could not get it through her head that phone messages required a name AND a return number AND a message. She always got one or two of the three, but never a complete message.

About the time dingbat gave her two week notice, a bankruptcy client came in. She had all her bills clipped together, alphabetized and organized. She had even gone on line and printed out her bankruptcy petition and had filled it out all by hand. All I had to do was have the dingbat put the information into the software and file it.

She was filing BK because she had lost her job. I had no qualms whatsoever about hiring her even though she had a bad credit history.

[Pizza]

Whatever you say, Flamingo. The average job lasts less than five years these days. I doubt you would remain fond of these checks if you were on the job searching end of the equation.

[NHC]

Actually, it's not just companies that handle finances that will do that. Years ago, fresh out of the Navy, I took a job at a MAJOR engineering firm through a placement agency. I worked there as a 'contractor' for 6 months...as an Expense Report Auditor. Mind you, I did not cut the checks nor process any sort of payment. I merely insured adherence to company/Federal travel guidelines. The company finally lifted the hiring freeze and 3 of us - who had applied for the jobs - were interviewed. I was offered the job. I was sent all the paperwork necesary to begin employment as an employee of the company. (Let's also remember that I was freshly divorced...and got all the bills in the deal.)

The last piece of paperwork in the stack was authorization for a credit check....I didn't think anything of it. Two days later, I was called into my prospective bosse's office and he said "didn't you say you're divorced?" I said "yeah, really recently too"...he said "well, the whole thing has apparently done a real number on your credit report...I'm sorry...but we can't hire you. In fact, you really can't even finish the work day because of this." (He was a really nice guy who did let me work the rest of the day anyway....he said he could 'ignore' the email for a couple hours....hehehee...he didn't think that was fair practice either....)

Now honestly, after 6 months of working my butt off and performing 'top notch' you would have thought they might overlook that credit report....nope. It was the SOLE reason I did not get the job. The Placement Agency that had placed me there didn't even know about the credit check....

So, how fair is that??

[ForumReader]

Here is the big picture out of the whole country and in this world, we are all humans and companies are run by humans. Credit companies are run by humans and so forth. Companies that have bellied up, poor decisions made by humans. I personally am against the idea of using a credit background for grounds of hiring purposes unless it involves top security clearance for top classified work both financial and scientific that can affect mankind.

[Flamingo]

=squeaks;396454]Flamingo, do you really believe it gets to the point where an HR manager is interested in why there was a bankruptcy? Your responses in the latter part of these posts have all the warmth of a snow pea and sound like the same contrived corporate rhetoric used by so many of those at the top who are willing to destroy lives to personally raise his or her income from 18 million to 22 million a year.

Hey, I don't make the decisions - I've seen the decisions made. A company can involve anyone in their managerial/executive staffing to be interested in any hiring of any person. Business and hiring decisions are emotionless or else everyone would learn to burst out crying at an interview to get the job. I am only giving some scenes from behind the hiring curtain; there is very little warmth involved in deciding who gets the job and who doesn't. It's competition and who is best suited for the position; It's not how many cookies one sells for school bake sale. I don't know why you are coming down on me for factual information.

I think you need to take a step back and look at what we are doing to each other in this society because the big picture is horrid.

I don't understand why you are asking me to do that because it is beyond any control I have and I am well aware of the big picture.

With the credit check being used as a bazooka to clear out the number of candidates, it is definitely one strike and you're out. Whether you have a great reason or not, there are too many in positions to make decisions who do not have a clue because mom and dad paid for that degree with the all impressive C-average from some teacher factory that ensures that new managers are well schooled in post modern feminism so they can either be emasculated men or "angry for the sake of it" women who look upon male counterparts as the person who has been standing on her throat for generations.

I attended a Merril Lynch function recently and was appalled at how many of their lower and mid level managers acted. It was pretty damned close to a Girls Gone Wild commercial and I kept thinking to myself, "these are the people who make decisions?" The sense of right and wrong in our society has definitely shifted towards the bizarre. If someone loses their job, it can have consequences that keep the individual trapped in debtor's prison for years if not the rest of their lives and this credit check BS is and will be a huge reason behind this. The credit reporting system is extremely flawed and to rely on it for life altering decisions is ridiculous.

Unfortunately, it's this day and age. A company can hire and fire whoever it wants and if one is an at will employee like most are, it can be for any reason and one can leave a job for any reason. We cannot change how businesses are run as to their hiring practices because most of those decisions come from their Executive and Legal sectors. All one can do is the best they can as to their situation, do their homework and apply for the job.