In jail for being in debt

[WhatMoney]

MSbklawyer said: To my way of thinking, when a judge puts you in jail indefinitely until you pay a creditor money, that is imprisonment for debt. You can call that practice by any name you like. But a rose by any other name is just the same. . . to use the old saw.

This is very frightening....very frightening.

To me, it is still unreal. WhatMoney, the problem with what you say is what the attorney has noted above, and what I might add too much power being given to officials who can easily abuse an inequitable process. Inequitable in the sense that it is too easy for folks to do whatever they like to achieve a desired result. Life is just not as "clean" as you have painted.

Nope, the court system is cleaner than the attorney or you claim by a long shot. It's the old numbers problem. One abusive judge in one case out of 50,000 judges in 10 million cases, and you all only look at the one bad case.

Since the earth will get hit by a large meteor sometime in the future as it has in the past, you might as well just kill yourself now - same line of thinking.

There has NEVER been a case of indefinite incarceration for civil contempt. NEVER - do you understand that? Civil contempt is NOT meant to be a penalty or a punishment (unlike Criminal Contempt) - it is simply to force compliance with a court order. Most debtors arrested for Civil Contempt of Court are released within 24 hours, or as soon as the next hearing if they cannot raise bail. If you were arrested Friday night on Labor Day weekend you might have to wait until Tuesday for the next court hearing, unless you paid the bail, which most debtors magically seem to be able to do, even though they claim they can't pay the debt.

You really need to learn more about this issue. There is a more intelligent discussion going on in the General Talk thread about this article. The real issue is jail time for ANY civil contempt, vs only monetary fines.

Read the links in the other thread, and try to understand why a stubborn attorney was jailed for years because he refused to pay a divorce settlement, even though the attorney had hidden 2.5 Million dollars in Europe to avoid payment. This was a civil Contempt case, since the judge had proof he could afford to pay and ruled contempt because of this. It was the most extreme case of stubbornness in the world by this attorney who chose to sit in jail instead of paying up the divorce settlement money to his ex. Nothing to do with simple unpaid credit card bills of course, although scare articles (and BK attorneys) like to mention it (without the details of course.)

[BigJohn]

I checked with Maricopa County, Arizona and it looks like some people get extra time in jail because they get an exta charge placed against them when they mouth off to the judge.

[WhatMoney]

Some Basics - since there is confusion here about civil vs criminal Contempt.

CONTEMPT OF COURT

Any willful disobedience to, or disregard of, a court order or any misconduct in the presence of a court; action that interferes with a judge's ability to administer justice or that insults the dignity of the court; punishable by fine or imprisonment or both. There are both civil and criminal contempts; the distinction is often unclear.

Contempt Of Court - Civil Or Criminal

A judge who feels someone is improperly challenging or ignoring the court's authority has the power to declare the defiant person (called the contemnor) in contempt of court. There are two types of contempt, criminal and civil. Criminal contempt occurs when the contemnor actually interferes with the ability of the court to function properly - for example, by yelling at the judge. This is also called direct contempt because it occurs directly in front of the judge. A criminal contemnor may be fined, jailed or both as punishment for his act.

Civil contempt occurs when the contemnor willfully disobeys a court order. This is also called indirect contempt because it occurs outside the judge's immediate realm and evidence must be presented to the judge to prove the contempt. A civil contemnor, too, may be fined, jailed or both. The fine or jailing is meant to coerce the contemnor into obeying the court, not to punish him, and the contemnor will be released from jail just as soon as he complies with the court order. In family law, civil contempt is one way a court enforces alimony, child support, custody and visitation orders which have been violated.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c118.htm

Also see:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2005/07/16/998/23642

In civil cases involving disputes between private citizens, the behavior resulting in the ruling is often directed at one of the parties involved rather than at the court directly. A person found in civil contempt of court is called a "contemnor." To prove civil contempt, the prosecutor or complainant must prove the four elements of contempt:

* Existence of a lawful order
* The contemnor's knowledge of the order
* The contemnor's ability to comply
* The contemnor's failure to comply

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_court

[BrokeIn2010]