Dave Ramsy - What do you think of him? Do you listen to him?

[fireworks]

I'm actually in the middle of his Financial Peace University series right now - just got back from week 7. Lots of good stuff to be learned.

From seeing the examples he uses in the class, as well as listening to his radio show, I think he tends to ignore those of us with really big debt. He's said several times that most people working his plan are out of debt in 18-24 months. When he describes the "rice and beans, beans and rice" philosophy or advises you to get a second job delivering pizzas, he's talking about that as a short term solution for a few months to maybe a year or two. For someone with a few thousand dollars in debt, or even $10-20K if they had a decent income to begin with, that plan would work. Those are not really the folks who should be filing bankruptcy anyway.

Many times on his radio show I've heard him advise someone to follow the Dave Ramsey plan and work his debt down "until they sue you and force you into bankruptcy." I've never heard him actually advise someone to file bankruptcy, he's said that he's against it from a moral standpoint and doesn't want people to experience the heartache and grief that come with it, but he does admit that in some situations it's the only choice.

I'm facing well over $140K in debt from my failed business venture, most of that on credit cards that are all now at absurdly high interest rates. Even before they jacked up my interest rates the minimum monthly payments were well over $2K on just the credit cards. That's not even accounting for my mortgage, student loans and other bills. When I was running my store I had the cash flow to manage that but I don't any longer. Before making the decision to file we looked at the numbers and realized how many decades it would take to pay all of that off. It's just not realistic. I'm skipping the "wait until they sue you" step - I'll handle whatever heartache comes from the bankruptcy and pass on the dread of answering the door or getting the mail waiting for the lawsuit papers.

Anyway, past that he's got some really great things to say about your finances. I highly recommend his FPU series. The radio show gets to be repetitive - if you listen to it for a few weeks you'll start to know the answers before the callers even finish asking questions.

[momisery]

So maybe rice and beans and a cardboard box for those who are too old to having living parents or those who's parents can not afford to have you come home? My problem with Dave Ramsey is he should be educating businesses who can file and not have a minutes problem. They keep it all, except the business after they drain it dry. Hard to talk to people who have lost their incomes due to poor business decisions as well as their own, when business is held accountable. Business is made up of people who got rich off of the bilking in some cases and they walk away with it all and their credit scores. Make it across the board punishment and more would listen. But how can you lecture people who make a fraction of income, who have suffered wages dropping for decades, rising healthcare, horrible stress levels after watching wall street bailouts.. how can you blame them for taking risks? That is what they were suppose to do.. invest in the stock market, your CPA will tell you that a home is a get INVESTMENT... people invested and did not go crazy with CC or fancy cars and those people are losing it all too. This is a depression, not some little down turn that we will bounce out of. I frankly do not have 20 years to pay back someone for a house whos value has dropped, taxpayers bailed them out, and they want me to pay more whole debt back... I would say they are the ones that need to get their heads and hearts straight.

[BKOnce]

I'm actually in the middle of his Financial Peace University series right now - just got back from week 7. Lots of good stuff to be learned.

From seeing the examples he uses in the class, as well as listening to his radio show, I think he tends to ignore those of us with really big debt. He's said several times that most people working his plan are out of debt in 18-24 months. When he describes the "rice and beans, beans and rice" philosophy or advises you to get a second job delivering pizzas, he's talking about that as a short term solution for a few months to maybe a year or two. For someone with a few thousand dollars in debt, or even $10-20K if they had a decent income to begin with, that plan would work. Those are not really the folks who should be filing bankruptcy anyway.

Many times on his radio show I've heard him advise someone to follow the Dave Ramsey plan and work his debt down "until they sue you and force you into bankruptcy." I've never heard him actually advise someone to file bankruptcy, he's said that he's against it from a moral standpoint and doesn't want people to experience the heartache and grief that come with it, but he does admit that in some situations it's the only choice.

I'm facing well over $140K in debt from my failed business venture, most of that on credit cards that are all now at absurdly high interest rates. Even before they jacked up my interest rates the minimum monthly payments were well over $2K on just the credit cards. That's not even accounting for my mortgage, student loans and other bills. When I was running my store I had the cash flow to manage that but I don't any longer. Before making the decision to file we looked at the numbers and realized how many decades it would take to pay all of that off. It's just not realistic. I'm skipping the "wait until they sue you" step - I'll handle whatever heartache comes from the bankruptcy and pass on the dread of answering the door or getting the mail waiting for the lawsuit papers.

Anyway, past that he's got some really great things to say about your finances. I highly recommend his FPU series. The radio show gets to be repetitive - if you listen to it for a few weeks you'll start to know the answers before the callers even finish asking questions.

Yes, he got a radio script of types of questions & answers... ready in front of him.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post fw. Most finance shows are repetitive unless they are investment shows. People in debt do not have many options, either work harder and/or spend less.

Sorry to hear about your debts. You appear to agree with dave about not filing BK and then you state you are going to file BK.

Freedom is not free.

I'm actually in the middle of his Financial Peace University series right now - just got back from week 7. Lots of good stuff to be learned.

From seeing the examples he uses in the class, as well as listening to his radio show, I think he tends to ignore those of us with really big debt. He's said several times that most people working his plan are out of debt in 18-24 months. When he describes the "rice and beans, beans and rice" philosophy or advises you to get a second job delivering pizzas, he's talking about that as a short term solution for a few months to maybe a year or two. For someone with a few thousand dollars in debt, or even $10-20K if they had a decent income to begin with, that plan would work. Those are not really the folks who should be filing bankruptcy anyway.

Many times on his radio show I've heard him advise someone to follow the Dave Ramsey plan and work his debt down "until they sue you and force you into bankruptcy." I've never heard him actually advise someone to file bankruptcy, he's said that he's against it from a moral standpoint and doesn't want people to experience the heartache and grief that come with it, but he does admit that in some situations it's the only choice.

I'm facing well over $140K in debt from my failed business venture, most of that on credit cards that are all now at absurdly high interest rates. Even before they jacked up my interest rates the minimum monthly payments were well over $2K on just the credit cards. That's not even accounting for my mortgage, student loans and other bills. When I was running my store I had the cash flow to manage that but I don't any longer. Before making the decision to file we looked at the numbers and realized how many decades it would take to pay all of that off. It's just not realistic. I'm skipping the "wait until they sue you" step - I'll handle whatever heartache comes from the bankruptcy and pass on the dread of answering the door or getting the mail waiting for the lawsuit papers.

Anyway, past that he's got some really great things to say about your finances. I highly recommend his FPU series. The radio show gets to be repetitive - if you listen to it for a few weeks you'll start to know the answers before the callers even finish asking questions.

[qsr]

I came back to read this thread because I've listened to DR off and on for the past 5 years (not a lot, as you say he gets repetitive.) I've seen the 60 minutes piece. But I've got a bigger problem in that my immediate family, whom may end up having to loan me money to file, listen to him (ahem) religiously. Let's just say his anti-BK stance is going to cause me that little extra bit of heartache I fear, although I have a generally understanding family.

I'm starting to think he's part of a bigger campaign by the CC companies to demonize BK in general. But as someone stated earlier, he's simply selling an alternative. There's a lot of people who can benefit from individuals avoiding BK. I'm always suspicious of people who espouse a one-size-fits-all philosophy, particularly when they wrap religion into the mix.

[needachance]

Currently reading TMMO AGAIN. We had been doing the Dave Ramsey plan for 5 years adn barely staying above water and making minimal progress. When chase more than doubled our minimum payments we decided that trying to "do the right thing" just ended. We had debt from a failed business, debt from hospital bills and debt from some stupid stuff over 10 years ago....but we have been doing rice and beans for so long I don't know how NOT to do it...but that was the straw that broke the camel's back. However, we will be building up an emergency fund as soon as this is over. We will be living with the cash is king philosophy the rest of our lives.

[LSUTiger32]

Regardless of what you think about his stance on Bankruptcy.....he does a lot more than that on his show. I am a fan but I also have a brain, so I don't follow his every word. However, his show is entertaining and inspiring that people can and do make it. His financial principles make a lot of sense because they are full of common sense. It's eye opening though to see things like what my $600 car payment that I paid for 5 years could be worth when I retire in 25 years. That number......$500,000. Amazing.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post qsr. I have to respectfully disagree. I do not think Dave Ramsey is 'anti-BK' he is just 'pro-personal responsibility'. Just because someone works hard to pay their debts(promises) does not mean they are anti-BK or anti-bailout.

Like me, I think that Dave understands that BK and bailouts are fine in some very limited circumstances because BK and bailouts have a negative impact on others.

Working hard to pay our bills is not a 'heartache' it is a duty and a honor.

God Bless America.

I came back to read this thread because I've listened to DR off and on for the past 5 years (not a lot, as you say he gets repetitive.) I've seen the 60 minutes piece. But I've got a bigger problem in that my immediate family, whom may end up having to loan me money to file, listen to him (ahem) religiously. Let's just say his anti-BK stance is going to cause me that little extra bit of heartache I fear, although I have a generally understanding family.

I'm starting to think he's part of a bigger campaign by the CC companies to demonize BK in general. But as someone stated earlier, he's simply selling an alternative. There's a lot of people who can benefit from individuals avoiding BK. I'm always suspicious of people who espouse a one-size-fits-all philosophy, particularly when they wrap religion into the mix.

[banca rotta]

Regardless of what you think about his stance on Bankruptcy.....he does a lot more than that on his show. I am a fan but I also have a brain, so I don't follow his every word. However, his show is entertaining and inspiring that people can and do make it. His financial principles make a lot of sense because they are full of common sense. It's eye opening though to see things like what my $600 car payment that I paid for 5 years could be worth when I retire in 25 years. That number......$500,000. Amazing.

This is another thing about Dave I kinda don't agree with. I personally don't use debt anymore especially for cars and their high payments but if everyone lived the way Dave says with no debt, buy what you can afford, etc., you can rest assure your mutual funds that he always tells us to buy will not get the returns even over the long run that Dave talks about.

The economy will be much more stable with no "boom bust" and most goods and services will be affordable with less consumer debt but the DOW will be 3000 if that was to happen.

One thing I notice with the economy. We can fix one thing but there will always be unintended consequences.

[banca rotta]

I am re-thinking the way I feel towards Dave Ramsey.

Two years later he still has eggs running down his face from this radio show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amluk6HxUH8

As far as I am concerned Dave is correct about not using CC's and keep the emergency fund as well as pay for purchases wih cash.

You will hear why he has no idea on investing and should not tell his callers what to invest in.

[helpmeout]

I read his book, or attempted to as he is very sanctomonious, "Total Money Make Over". I especially liked the part about he wrote about how he hated how preachy other people were about finances. And then went on to be even preachier than they were. In fact, by the time I got to the money saving and budgeting ideas (which was more than half way through the book) I lost interest.

I imagine he just might have some good ideas if he could ever write a book where he just doesn't ramble on. I don't listen to his show. And had I listened to him and followed his advice instead of filing bankruptcy, well, I would be in even worse shape. Add to that 2 young kids who would be starved for their mother's attention as, according to Dave Ramsey, I will be out working 2-3 jobs to pay off my debt. I am a single parent and my ex's work schedule is crazy as it is so it's not like they would be with him.

And they would be starving as only one of them will eat rice. Neither of them would eat beans and rice. Besides, they need more healthy foods than that, such as veggies and fruits.

[helpmeout]

I agree with your assessment.

I've never been through a bankruptcy myself, but I've handled many of them for clients. But Ramsey describes it as this heart-wrenching, months-of-sleepless-nights, agonizing experience to be avoided like the plague.

I started sleeping and stopped crying when I made the decision to file for bankruptcy. Do I feel bad? Yes. But I am sleeping better now that I have a workable plan for the future. Is it scary? Yes. But not as scary as trying to figure out how the he!! I was going to keep all of the balls in the air without having a nervous breakdown. Because that is where I was headed.

Dave Ramsey needs to stop projecting how he felt onto everybody.

[bulletproof77]

It's just business....

Do I feel guilty about filing BK and giving my underwater house back to a financial organization that received BILLIONS in TARP funds which you and I paid for ??? Do I feel guilty about giving the financial "middle finger" to companies like Chase and Citibank, who pay their exec's million in bonus money while millions of people are out of work ? HELL NO !!! After all as Bank of America told me while they were foreclosing...."Nothing personal, it's just BUSINESS".....Whats good for "business" morally is good enough for us..We are all just numbers on some banks hard drive....

[coolmom04]

We are currently taking FPU and are filing ch7 this week. I really enjoy the class though I do fully agree that he is preachy. I have student loan debt that I'll be trying to pay off after BK so that's my main "debt snowball" plan. I am learning more about budgeting and I am excited about that, too.. something we tried in the past, but never stuck to it.

I watch his show all the time and I have heard him twice in the past two shows say he has no problem with people filing BK as long as they actually learn their lesson (which absolutely floored me)

So.. I enjoy learning from him, but do get sick of him preaching sometimes

[meateater]

I've read his books and followed some of the postings on his website forum (I'm not a member and not willing to pay $10 a month to be, it seems somewhat inappropriate for him to be advising a "beans and rice" lifestyle while charging for his program, you can read for free, but not post or see user names).

Some of his advise seems excellent, and the program looks like it would work for folks who have a decent income, good health, reasonable debt, and not maximizing their budgets. It's not going to help folks who have already passed the mathematical point of no return. I think it (or something similar) would be a terrific program to give to young people BEFORE they get into debt.