Is BK good for the economy?

[banca rotta]

How many businesses and what kind of innovation would we have if not for the bk laws??

Who would take risk creating the badly needed jobs if you knew you would wind up in debtors prison or had a lifetime of slavery.

Before there were any bk laws the world didn't have much of an economy compared to today.

Is it a coincidence? Probably not.

No risk, no reward. Bk allows risk.

Bailouts which is totally different then bk is another story and that is far worse for the economy.

[HHM]

Pointless baiting, when you have a real argument sigferl, then post. Let me ask you this; if you "promise" your mother you will be over to dinner at 8:00pm, but on the drive over, you are in a car accident and taken to the hospital, are you still morally culpable for keeping your promise to your mother? If you lose your job, are you still morally obligated to pay your debt? The answer is no, NO promise is absolute, everyone (except the insanely stupid and heartless like yourself) understands that promises come with an inherent qualification; that is, a promise is always qualified by the "what if" if circumstances beyond the persons control.

As for BK effects on the economy, the effects are nil. The amount of debt discharged is less then 1% of the assets held by banks.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post HHM. So, you say we should all file BK many times... Hmmm. Lets do it.

No, I cannot control everything, BUT you can 'save money for a rainy. My mother always told me to save money for a rainy day so job loss is NOT a reason for BK.

Why do you not listen to your mother and save money for a rainy day?

Do you work to jobs HHM? Lets each get another job for the winter.

Because the effects of BK on the economy is small does not mean it is right. Shoplifting/fraud effects on economy is small and they are not right.

God Bless America.

Pointless baiting, when you have a real argument sigferl, then post. Let me ask you this; if you "promise" your mother you will be over to dinner at 8:00pm, but on the drive over, you are in a car accident and taken to the hospital, are you still morally culpable for keeping your promise to your mother? If you lose your job, are you still morally obligated to pay your debt? The answer is no, NO promise is absolute, everyone (except the insanely stupid and heartless like yourself) understands that promises come with an inherent qualification; that is, a promise is always qualified by the "what if" if circumstances beyond the persons control.

As for BK effects on the economy, the effects are nil. The amount of debt discharged is less then 1% of the assets held by banks.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post br. I mostly agree. Business risk and BK is acceptable because a business is trying to create jobs and perform/make something better than the competitors.

Personal BK for non-severe medical disabilities is only benefiting the one person and was never going to benefit anyone other than himself.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

How many businesses and what kind of innovation would we have if not for the bk laws??

Who would take risk creating the badly needed jobs if you knew you would wind up in debtors prison or had a lifetime of slavery.

Before there were any bk laws the world didn't have much of an economy compared to today.

Is it a coincidence? Probably not.

No risk, no reward. Bk allows risk.

Bailouts which is totally different then bk is another story and that is far worse for the economy.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post JR. Some people are like the Boy Scouts and plan for emergencies. I have been through many hard times and I have been able to plan for them all. Having a large savings account helps cure a lot of problems.

Job loss - no issue, always have 9-12 months salary saved.

medical bills(non-catastrophic) - no issue, always have good health insuranc even if you have to buy it yourself and pay lots of money.

Divorce - no issue, never be in debt(except for house or car) and always have 9-12 months salary saved.

Can you give me an example of a item that cannot be planned for(excluding severe permanent medical disability)?

Vote Libertarian

Some folks like the OP never understand suffering and pain that others feel. The only way they learn that is if they go through it as well. Perhaps we should all pray that the Lord should send a drought of money into his life that perhaps he might understand the true nature of what causes the vast majority of people to file bankruptcy?

[leena]

Try having "good" insurance Sigferl, and far more than 12 months salary in savings and having a kid with a rare cancer. This happened to good friends of mine in 2005. They lost their house, their cars, and are currently $75,000 in debt. Their son, mercifully survived. After trying and trying to negotiate with the people they owed all those medical bills to, they decided just a few days ago to go Chapter 13. I think it is almost sad that due to their higher combined income the bloodsuckers they owe money to will probably get 80% of it back under the plan. They are in the process of a lawsuit with the insurance company that cut them off while their son was being treated, but even if that succeeds, it will be too late to pay those bills. If you ask me, the insurance company should have to barf up that whole amount and a few hundred grand more for all the bull they have put this family through after they paid premiums for 10 years...

Sig, you can think whatever you like of people like me, but do NOT say that no one needs to file on medical bills, it just is not true.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post leena. I have ALWAYS said that severe medical disabilites is a reason for BK.

I think BK is greatly abused by people acting 'stupid' and somehow spending more then they make without having a tragic incident.

Do you know of anyone that has filed BK for non-severe medical disabilites?

All six of the BK that I personally know of were not due to severe medical disabilities and all could have been easily avoided by working harder and living frugally.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Try having "good" insurance Sigferl, and far more than 12 months salary in savings and having a kid with a rare cancer. This happened to good friends of mine in 2005. They lost their house, their cars, and are currently $75,000 in debt. Their son, mercifully survived. After trying and trying to negotiate with the people they owed all those medical bills to, they decided just a few days ago to go Chapter 13. I think it is almost sad that due to their higher combined income the bloodsuckers they owe money to will probably get 80% of it back under the plan. They are in the process of a lawsuit with the insurance company that cut them off while their son was being treated, but even if that succeeds, it will be too late to pay those bills. If you ask me, the insurance company should have to barf up that whole amount and a few hundred grand more for all the bull they have put this family through after they paid premiums for 10 years...

Sig, you can think whatever you like of people like me, but do NOT say that no one needs to file on medical bills, it just is not true.

[forgotten]

Personal BK for non-severe medical disabilities is only benefiting the one person and was never going to benefit anyone other than himself.

Spending money you don't have *must* help the economy. Haven't you seen all the governement spending trying to keep the economy going? Spending mass amounts of money you don't have is simply doing your patriotic duty!

[leena]

Thanks for your post leena. I have ALWAYS said that severe medical disabilites is a reason for BK.

I think BK is greatly abused by people acting 'stupid' and somehow spending more then they make without having a tragic incident.

Do you know of anyone that has filed BK for non-severe medical disabilites?

All six of the BK that I personally know of were not due to severe medical disabilities and all could have been easily avoided by working harder and living frugally.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Trouble is, Sigferl you did say something in your earlier post about how medical insurance would protect you from BK, which is not always so by any means as my friend's story clearly shows.

Also, who are you to decide what a "non severe" medical disability is? I think Dr's decide that one, oh and they charge accordingly!

"Hard work" will not save you from BK either, Sigferl. I work a good 50 hours a week.

Did I make some bad choices? Absolutely! Do I /have I lived a lavish lifestyle? Nope.

Mistakes, yes but Sigferl let s/he who is without sin cast the first stone. I am very sure you are not without fault because you are human and we are all flawed.

Also, just what in you is fed by coming to a BK board and putting people down who are filing BK? Why do you need that shot in the arm to make you feel better and superior? If you want to outlaw BK, (accept for whatever you deem a "severe medical disability, you being an expert and all!) why don;t you go become an anti-BK activist where it counts? What you are doing here is just feeding your own ego by attempting to tear down others, which is pretty pathetic, actually.

[Ifonly]

to Leena. It's like people who are obsessed with reality shows and their appeal overall - they like watching people make fools of themselves so they can say, "oh, I would never do that, I'd be smarter than that." It's like an ego boost.

Personally, I would find your advice to not be oh so much bullsh*t if you had facts to back it up.

You lost your job in 2006 but you had extensive savings - how much were you making? Any other income? What were your expenses at the time? How much did you have in savings? When did you get another job? Did you pay for COBRA while you were unemployed? How much was that? Are you self-insured? What exactly do you grow in your garden and please provide instructions for canning or utilizing the produce?

In other words, back it up. Because you just seem to have the easy answer for everything and anyone with an ounce of wisdom knows that life is not that easy. Advice without examples and options is like providing people with Chinese fortune cookies - entertaining, but useless.

[CompTweaker]

Oh how wonderful it truly is for YOUR economy and YOUR world siggy, oh what ever would you do if it werent for BK....would you be landmining forums of cancer patients for getting sick and making medical costs go up?....the alzheimer's victims or downs syndrome victims for needing help? Ah, what the heck, I know I'm playing your little game by responding since you obviously get your kicks out of this.....

and yes, some people can abuse the BK system just like you're abusing my eyes with this childish fodder you're posting....so I'll bite....my question to you is why do you feel so inferior to the BK system? Why does it hurt you so bad since you're such a penny pincher, yet you lavish yourself in internet bandwidth taking up server and forum space?....now be sure to smile, wink, and say thank you for my post......oh how I wish you could do it in person, that way I could smack the smirk off of your face before you had the chance to push me while my back was turned.....so there, you love the attention, so what else you got?

[kenshirley]

Te original question for most of us here should not be "is BK good for the economy" but rather "did many of us that filed BK have a choice in the matter"?

[forgotten]

If you ask me, I was just saving creditors money by fileing for BK.
Either way, I couldn't afford to pay.

By declaring BK I am saving them all kinds of money in collection and legal fees trying to collect on the money that I just don't have to give them.

Heck... they should send me a thank you letter!

[NoMoreCards]

If you ask me, I was just saving creditors money by fileing for BK.
Either way, I couldn't afford to pay.

By declaring BK I am saving them all kinds of money in collection and legal fees trying to collect on the money that I just don't have to give them.

Heck... they should send me a thank you letter!

That is actually a true statement. Lol!!

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post CT. Easy, I WANT ALL MY MONEY BACK. Is it not obvious? Repay me my hard-earned money and stop abusing BK.

Since money does not grow on trees, people like me have paid for all BKs and I want my money back from all the people that abuse BK(95%). Please send me a check for the cost of your BK, that will make us even.

I would love to donate money to worthwhile organizations like cancer research but so much of my money goes to pay for BK and bailouts that I have none left over. Why am I forced to pay for BK and not allowed to spend my money how I wish.

God Bless America.

Oh how wonderful it truly is for YOUR economy and YOUR world siggy, oh what ever would you do if it werent for BK....would you be landmining forums of cancer patients for getting sick and making medical costs go up?....the alzheimer's victims or downs syndrome victims for needing help? Ah, what the heck, I know I'm playing your little game by responding since you obviously get your kicks out of this.....

and yes, some people can abuse the BK system just like you're abusing my eyes with this childish fodder you're posting....so I'll bite....my question to you is why do you feel so inferior to the BK system? Why does it hurt you so bad since you're such a penny pincher, yet you lavish yourself in internet bandwidth taking up server and forum space?....now be sure to smile, wink, and say thank you for my post......oh how I wish you could do it in person, that way I could smack the smirk off of your face before you had the chance to push me while my back was turned.....so there, you love the attention, so what else you got?