Some specific Q's after reading 1/2 of BK manual

[dimmwatt]

My story recap (biggest question at the bottom #5)

forclosure in process, not sold yet. Will probably owe 100K + as an usecured debt that will show up as a judgement some day down the line.

1. How long does that take to show up as a judgement? Also, some of the text in the BK manual implies that once it becomes a judgement it cant be wiped clean. Is this true?

2. I am married. Will my wife be included in the BK too? She doesnt have any substantial income and all the debts are on my credit in my name.

3. What happens to a leased car in a 7 or a 13? Based on the reading I cant be sure considering it has zero equity. The lease is up April 2008...7 months.

4. I figure I shouldnt file now. Filing protects foreclosure right? Or does it? I want foreclosure so the house gets sold ASAP. My selling agent has been unsuccessful. THE BIGGEST REASO I DONT THINK I SHOULD FULE NOW IS #5

5. I have close to 20K that I have saved in a basic savings acount for my son (5K of which is in a cd that matures in NOV) Can I protect this asset? It has text labeling it as his on the bank statement that goes back to its inception.

If this asset cant be protected, do I need to spend it or transfer it or gift it? How long does this have to happen before I file, so its not considered Fraud? Does a BK protect college funds like it does 401k's?

6. I like cars. I have 6 vehicles total, the wifes (lease), 3 others titled in my name, 1 for sale 3k, the other 2 are old and worth maybe 2K combined the last 2 are project cars that are not in my name. My question is How will they confirm my assets? There isnt any way to find the last 2. Also, if they allow me to eempt 1 TV and I have 2 or 1 computer and I have 2, how will they ever know?

Thanks for your time!

[Boscoe]

Answers in bold. Keep the questions coming, we are here to help.

forclosure in process, not sold yet. Will probably owe 100K + as an usecured debt that will show up as a judgement some day down the line.

1. How long does that take to show up as a judgement? Also, some of the text in the BK manual implies that once it becomes a judgement it cant be wiped clean. Is this true? This differs from state to state. But, yes, it can all be wiped clean in a bk. But you really should file before the lender forecloses. It will help you and your credit recover faster afterwards.

2. I am married. Will my wife be included in the BK too? She doesnt have any substantial income and all the debts are on my credit in my name. If any debts you are looking to discharge are also in her name, then she will need to file too. The good news is that your exemptions double if she does. That helped us out alot when we filed.

3. What happens to a leased car in a 7 or a 13? Based on the reading I cant be sure considering it has zero equity. The lease is up April 2008...7 months. This is a good question - I will leave to others to answer for sure. I believe you would include it under the 'unexpired leases' section, but not sure how you keep it other than to keep current with the payments or they certainly will repo it.

4. I figure I shouldnt file now. Filing protects foreclosure right? Or does it? I want foreclosure so the house gets sold ASAP. My selling agent has been unsuccessful. THE BIGGEST REASO I DONT THINK I SHOULD FULE NOW IS #5 I think you SHOULD file now, because bk wipes out the debt you owe on this and there is no reason to wait thinking it 'might' sell.

5. I have close to 20K that I have saved in a basic savings acount for my son (5K of which is in a cd that matures in NOV) Can I protect this asset? It has text labeling it as his on the bank statement that goes back to its inception. Is it in his soc. sec. #? If so, you could be ok, because he won't be on the bk. You will need to talk to a couple of bk attorneys to be sure. You will need to prove it is not YOUR asset of course.

If this asset cant be protected, do I need to spend it or transfer it or gift it? How long does this have to happen before I file, so its not considered Fraud? Does a BK protect college funds like it does 401k's? More good questions for your attorney. I have not heard that college funds are protected - but I think your best bet is to prove it is your son's and was not transferred to him during the last 2 years.

6. I like cars. I have 6 vehicles total, the wifes (lease), 3 others titled in my name, 1 for sale 3k, the other 2 are old and worth maybe 2K combined the last 2 are project cars that are not in my name. My question is How will they confirm my assets? There isnt any way to find the last 2. Also, if they allow me to eempt 1 TV and I have 2 or 1 computer and I have 2, how will they ever know? Best answer here is....if you do not disclose everything, just don't get caught, or your case will be dismissed and you will owe EVERYTHING you are trying to discharge. I would take the approach that the older cars and computers and TV are basically worthless and include them with your household furnishings exemption. They don't come to your house to inventory your assets, if that is what you are asking. Just be very careful and don't disclose anything that might be considered by your attorney to be unethical, as they would need to disclose it if they become aware of it.

[lrprn]

1. How long does that take to show up as a judgement? Also, some of the text in the BK manual implies that once it becomes a judgement it cant be wiped clean. Is this true? This differs from state to state. But, yes, it can all be wiped clean in a bk. But you really should file before the lender forecloses. It will help you and your credit recover faster afterwards.

Some judgments can't be wiped out in bankruptcy - those related to criminal activity or monetary judgments for victims after a drunk driving accident, for example. But most judgments can be removed in bankruptcy - see http://moranlaw.net/lawsuits.htm . As Boscoe said, it's best to avoid the judgment by filing before it happens.


2. I am married. Will my wife be included in the BK too? She doesnt have any substantial income and all the debts are on my credit in my name. If any debts you are looking to discharge are also in her name, then she will need to file too. The good news is that your exemptions double if she does. That helped us out alot when we filed.

Be careful here. Some states do not allow doubling every exemption when married couples file. Check with your lawyer to see if your state is one of them.

3. What happens to a leased car in a 7 or a 13? Based on the reading I cant be sure considering it has zero equity. The lease is up April 2008...7 months. This is a good question - I will leave to others to answer for sure. I believe you would include it under the 'unexpired leases' section, but not sure how you keep it other than to keep current with the payments or they certainly will repo it.

A leased car is like any other secured debt and is treated as such. Do a search for "leased car" - there have been a lot of threads related to this over the last six months.

6. I like cars. I have 6 vehicles total, the wifes (lease), 3 others titled in my name, 1 for sale 3k, the other 2 are old and worth maybe 2K combined the last 2 are project cars that are not in my name. My question is How will they confirm my assets? There isnt any way to find the last 2. Also, if they allow me to eempt 1 TV and I have 2 or 1 computer and I have 2, how will they ever know? Best answer here is....if you do not disclose everything, just don't get caught, or your case will be dismissed and you will owe EVERYTHING you are trying to discharge. I would take the approach that the older cars and computers and TV are basically worthless and include them with your household furnishings exemption. They don't come to your house to inventory your assets, if that is what you are asking. Just be very careful and don't disclose anything that might be considered by your attorney to be unethical, as they would need to disclose it if they become aware of it.

Have to disagree with some of this last advice. You should ALWAYS tell your lawyer everything. They work for you, not the trustee. Your lawyer can't use his/her expertise to protect your interests if they don't have all your pertinent asset and financial information.

The key is going to be are the cars beyond the number of licensed drivers in your house operational or not. If they are in pieces, then counting them in your household assets is fine. If they are operational, then it depends on their worth whether the trustee may go after what can't be protected by your state motor vehicle exemption (+ wildcard if that's available in your state) or not.

Work with your lawyer to sort all of these questions out. Hope everything comes out in your favor!

[dimmwatt]

Have to disagree with some of this last advice. You should ALWAYS tell your lawyer everything. They work for you, not the trustee. Your lawyer can't use his/her expertise to protect your interests if they don't have all your pertinent asset and financial information.

The key is going to be are the cars beyond the number of licensed drivers in your house operational or not. If they are in pieces, then counting them in your household assets is fine. If they are operational, then it depends on their worth whether the trustee may go after what can't be protected by your state motor vehicle exemption (+ wildcard if that's available in your state) or not.

Work with your lawyer to sort all of these questions out. Hope everything comes out in your favor!

I am in California. How many bank statements will the Trustee want to see? How far back do they look into my cash assets? I spent around 9K 11 months ago that I dont want anyone asking where the $ went. I dont have receipts.

I plan on selling 1 of the cars, that is on record with DMV, I plan on keeping the leased car and onother that is on record with DMV. This car is not operational, but has current registration and ins. and is in dmv records. As far as DMV knows, its operational.

Does the trustee check the internet for sources like these posts? What about internet car clubs that I belong to?

My thought was to take my sons $ and pay off my CC's Then BK the house debt only. Then eventually pay back into my sons fund. Any thoughts?

[Minnymouth]

Why would you want to use son's money to pay off credit card debt when it can be discharged in bankrtupcy...... foolish mistake!!! Let it get discharged along with the house debt if our letting it go also.....

Save your son's money...................now if son's money is in your name - you have a problem.

Talk to at least 3 attorneys in your area and see what options are available......

Tell them everything, don't be hiding stuff from them (such as the 9K you spent)..... they can't work for you if they don't know the facts!!

[dimmwatt]

The account is in my name. It is titled as his meaning that B of A allows you to designate the name of an account instead of you seeing an account #. The name of the account has always been his name. Yes I see I may have a problem. I have a free consultation with an attourney on Monday. I will tell them everything.

[Bandit]

Does the trustee check the internet for sources like these posts? What about internet car clubs that I belong to?

I suppose that is possible but not probable. Though people online are not anonymous the Trustee has better things to do.

I have my doubts anyone will go around searching thru forums and car clubs online just to find one person. Web Forums are a relatively new wave of information and dialogue. They would need to hack the forums or get some kind of warrant to do that as some evidence. Though everything we do online can be intercepted or if we break the law they can take our computers.

I can see that happening in about 20-30 years but not today for
Chatting online and learning about cars and law does not make someone a criminal. Not knowing the law is worse than learning it because ignorance of the law is no excuse. All the questions and concerns we have, most of the info & experience is already online, in law books and has been asked hundreds of times before.

What you are thinking of is fraud or when people try to bring harm to someone over the internet, like identity theft, pedophile etc... Yes, the law does search for those things online.
That kind of thing occurs more in chat rooms, telephone & email & not respectful forums like this.
I felt it is a good question because I have wondered about it.

my two cents on that

[dimmwatt]

I shure hope they dont. If they did, they could find assets, namely cars that arnt in my name, but hope to register and drive or sell in the near future.

What I should ask is what means does the trustee use to double check that all your assets listed are a complete list? I intend to show everything in my name that was ever a debt or a cash asset thats easily seen in my bank statements.

[Bandit]

I shure hope they dont. If they did, they could find assets, namely cars that arnt in my name, but hope to register and drive or sell in the near future.

They don't expect our worlds to come to a complete stop even though it seems like it is to us. I just don't see them going to all the car forums that are out there, there are just too many. LOL! I feel pretty confident you can cross that worry off your list. The cars are not yours right now but you want them later & I would not even bring that up unless of course your attorney is into cars as well & he has a classic for sale at a great price that you cannot refuse.

If you are talking about extra hobby cars, or cars that you buy, add mods or whatever and then sell and trade that could be viewed later as income or assets? One thing I would do (not advice but what I would do) is maybe wait until after the discharge before swapping any titles and maybe even give about 6 months.
Below I will tell you why.

What I should ask is what means does the trustee use to double check that all your assets listed are a complete list? I intend to show everything in my name that was ever a debt or a cash asset thats easily seen in my bank statements.

You are doing exactly what you are supposed to do, dimmwatt , so no worries there.
If they need to find out something extra I am pretty sure with all the info we give them, they will.
As far as double checking, I am not sure if they do or how they do it if they do. My hunch is, SS#, birthday & mothers maiden name says it all.

There is a list of routine questions they ask at the 341 and one of them includes future funds you could be getting. My Grandmother had to do a Bk because my one cousin took advantage of her cards & assets throwing Grandma into a chapter 13. Grandma had no clue this was all happening under her nose.
My mom went up & picked up all the pieces after the BK. Just after the BK, Grandmas house went on the auction block and they notified my mom.
That was a 13, however, my Grandma never paid a penny on that BK and got it switched to a 7.
About six months later my mom got a letter from somewhere with the Government asking if my Grandmother had encountered any extra funds, changes in her income, or made any large purchases. She returned the letter saying, NO.
This could be one way they double check.

This is what I know did happen, I am not saying that always happens.

I guess anything is possible, so just be on the safe side & be patient. If your attorney says go ahead and buy all the cars you want when it is over, then happy car enthusiasm!
Best Wishes to you.

[dimmwatt]

I have a meeting tomorrow with an attourny.

Anybody know about selling cars? I have one I would like to unload that I purchased about 6 months ago for $500, it is a salvaged title and I would like to get what I paid for it so I can have $ for xmas coming up.

[woeisme]

cars

I know when I went to my attorney for the final paperwork signing, she had run some checks and asked us about 2 cars that we hadn't reported owning. (One we sold last year to a junkyard for $50 because it would have cost more to fix up than it was worth, and one was signed over to Allstate after it was declared "totaled" when a drunk driver creamed it, we had to sign over the car to get the insurance $ to pay off the vehicle loan.) So she knew about those two cars even though we didn't actually own them anymore, and wanted explainations to why they weren't on the list of assets, so if your lawyer is doing his/her job, I think they will find out about your cars if your name is on the titles, whether you disclose them or not.

[dimmwatt]

Yep, I figured they would find anything that I hold a title on as its listed with the state of CA.

Good news though. The Lawyer said that the Mortgage company cant dome after me for any difficiency left after the house sells @ auction. He even printed a copy of the civil code to show it to me. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! No BK for me and no more worrying about loosing any assets! The worst they can come after me for seems to be the leagal costs of the forclosure. That is way under a grand.