Filing 7 - What Happens to Car?

[desperate&broke]

My 2002 Toyota Sienna is my only true asset I wish to salvage when I file. It's paid off. It's mine. Because I want to keep it, will this make me file a Chpt 13?

[HeatherB]

I don't *think* it would matter so long as it falls under the amount of exemption in your state (each state is different). You might want to check out the exemption section to see if anyone knows what it is in your state.

[lrprn]

D&B, you said in earlier posts that you're in Illinois. Here's a link to the Illinois bk exemptions - http://www.bankruptcyinformation.com/IL_exemp.htm

In Illinois, you can protect a motor vehicle for $1200 plus a $2000 wild card. Since your car is paid off, if your 2002 Sienna is worth less than $3,200, it will be safe if you file.

However, Edmunds.com shows a standard 2002 Toyota Sienna as worth about $10-11,000 That opens the door to your trustee potentially seizing the car and selling it, giving you $3200. Your trustee might also ask you to pay the difference in a lump sum - that's still a lot to pay to keep an already paid off car.

If you haven't already interviewed several bk lawyers in your area, now is the time to set up your free initial consultations. These lawyers can give you an idea what the trustees in your district are likely to do when your car is worth a lot more than your exemption can protect.

[desperate&broke]

Unfortunately in Illinois we get 1200 exemption for a vehicle and the $2k wild car. Only 3200 for my car is not enough. I do have my first consult with an attorney on Monday. I should stop freaking out (which I am) before speaking to an attorney. it just saddens me and getting rid of that car will automatically raise flags with all family members whom I wanted to keep this from *sigh*...

[Bandit]

Unfortunately in Illinois we get 1200 exemption for a vehicle and the $2k wild car. Only 3200 for my car is not enough. I do have my first consult with an attorney on Monday. I should stop freaking out (which I am) before speaking to an attorney. it just saddens me and getting rid of that car will automatically raise flags with all family members whom I wanted to keep this from *sigh*...

I have been doing a lot of research on exemptions from state to state and am realizing that some states are taking advantage of BK by not giving enough exemption amounts. For example Kansas gives 10,000 for a car but Illinois only gives 1200. Then I read in another place (several other places) that Kansas gives less and Illinois gives more.

I did not bookmark all the sites but this one you can see for yourself is saying Illinois gives 2400 for a car as of 2/21/06. It is also saying you get 4000 in any other personal property.

http://www.totalbankruptcy.com/state_exemptions_illinois_summary.htm

Then I read elsewhere that if you are married and both names are on the title then you can double the exemptions making it a total of something around 12,000 for a car.

Hey- i do not know if this is correct because I am still learning about all this- but if it is, then you might be able to still keep you car because you would have more exemption than what other sites say. Get this, I even read that one place in Kansas says you can get up to 20,000 for a car. If that is really true, you could move to Kansas if you really want to keep your car that badly and also get out of debt. Just a thought, not a suggestion.

Something is just not right about all this. Is it possible that some sites have not updated their information or could some of these sites just be telling lies?, just to get business? I do not know if they are lies because I keep seeing the same things everywhere as far as the same amount of exemption but I keep seeing two different exemption amounts for the same state...and it is NOT a Federal exemption because I learned only 16states allow that.

I am a bit confused about it, not that I really care because I don't have anything to lose but am concerned as to how it could vary to so many extremes from state to state and from website to website. BIG ? here.

Help me understand

[Bandit]

Then I read elsewhere that if you are married and both names are on the title then you can double the exemptions making it a total of something around 12,000 for a car.

Here is where I read about that:

In applying the $2,400.00 vehicle exemption a debtor also subtracts any liens against the car. And in addition to this $2,400.00 exemption for a vehicle a person filing bankruptcy can apply part or all of the $4,000.00 wildcard personal property exemption to their vehicle. It is thus possible for a married couple filing Chapter 7 to retain a jointly owned automobile worth $12,800.00, if they both apply their vehicle exemption and their personal property exemption to this one car.

http://www.patrickhartlaw.com/exemptions.jsp

Ok...so which is it?

1200
2400
or
12,000 (if married)

I am very confused right now and am probably not helping much but really am trying to help this person find a way keep their car.

[BassBoy]

Would this be true?

Hey- i do not know if this is correct because I am still learning about all this- but if it is, then you might be able to still keep you car because you would have more exemption than what other sites say. Get this, I even read that one place in Kansas says you can get up to 20,000 for a car. If that is really true, you could move to Kansas if you really want to keep your car that badly and also get out of debt. Just a thought, not a suggestion.

Not that this matters much in this thread, but I believe that if D&B was to move to, let's say Kansas, D&B would have to hold residency for a period of time (I believe it is 6 months) before filing in BK in Kansas and using those exemptions and D&B may not have that kind of time.

But anyways............

Staying on topic.........

[desperate&broke]

Bandit,

Thanks for your input. I truly wish I had the ability to move ;) I have hubby and children whom wouldn't be too thrilled if I uped and moved them!

I see what you mean about different sites, different information. I guess I should just wait and see what these attorneys here have to say. Worst case? I pay up some $ (as much as I would hate to have to do that, I'd have no choice).

Anyone else have any suggestions of going about this? Possibly selling car and getting a smaller/cheaper one? Or financing a new one now and reaffirming it?
Anyone experienced anything similar to this?

[AMISLANDER]

Bandit,

Thanks for your input. I truly wish I had the ability to move ;) I have hubby and children whom wouldn't be too thrilled if I uped and moved them!

I see what you mean about different sites, different information. I guess I should just wait and see what these attorneys here have to say. Worst case? I pay up some $ (as much as I would hate to have to do that, I'd have no choice).

Anyone else have any suggestions of going about this? Possibly selling car and getting a smaller/cheaper one? Or financing a new one now and reaffirming it?
Anyone experienced anything similar to this?

I went through this issue with my 2000 4Runner. I actually had a lien on it from my mother a year prior to filing due to some $ issues.

In FL, the exemption is $1,000. Blue Book on the 4Runner was around $10,000.

Trustee wanted my SUV BAD! However, due some mechanical issues, Carmax gave it a value of $5K...I ended up making a deal with trustee as he was not able to make it to the hearing that was going to occur regarding my vehicle...it was my only asset.

I ended up paying $1,500.00 plus my tax return which was taken in order to keep the truck.

It was not a fun period of time wondering if it was going to be taken...

Good Luck!

[Bandit]

Not that this matters much in this thread, but I believe that if D&B was to move to, let's say Kansas, D&B would have to hold residency for a period of time (I believe it is 6 months) before filing in BK in Kansas and using those exemptions and D&B may not have that kind of time.

But anyways............

Staying on topic.........

I know it is not as easy as it sounds and doubt very many could do it. It would probably be more reasonable for those who are within walking distance of the state line and have lived along a state line or corners for a long time. I grew up on a state line just a few minutes away so it may have been possible then. I had two residencys and two DL's for a long time. Two vehicles registered in two different states and so on & so forth. At another point I was granfathered into a CDL in a 3rd state and this was all legal as I was a professional driver then. From where I was, I could get to 3 different states in less than 30 minutes.

It might work for snowbirds who go back and forth from florida to Kansas. I really don't know.

The state to state thing, different figures and BK has me intrigued at the moment and how BK would deal with property in different states, though I know we are not in Kansas any more

sorry for rambling.

[Bandit]

hmmm. Hypothetical Scenario number 3.

The car is BB valued at 8,000. But it needs this, this and this... so what is the real current value and the real current exemption? I don't know yet. This is when we all need a good mechanic, a good lawyer and both good at math.

Metaphorically speaking now and waiting for the fog to lift.

If the vehicle is not in proper working order to drive it across the state line and visit friends or relatives (and this has happened a few times in my life - fog is lifting) - or we are only a few miles away from home....we may need a little help from someone pushing it or towing it, but we can still get there...and get there with very few scratches.

Of course you cannot push/tow a house very far but you can push a car quite a distance. No problemo!

I know an old saying that there are 100 paths to get to the same place, if you really want to get there. Maybe that old saying is true.

[havetodecide]

I am basically in the same situation. My case was filed today, chapter 7, and my only asset is a 2003 car paid for. Lawyer applied exemptions and said if the total of the car i supplied is accurate i will owe around 2600.00 after exemptions applied (car worth around 5600.00, no working AC).

Does anyone know if i will have to pay a lump sum or it can be done in installments? and is it something worked out at the 341 meeting or it needs a judge to be involved? I just don't want my case to get too complicated

Thanks