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Second mortgage stripped, but lien still on title

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  • Second mortgage stripped, but lien still on title

    I completed my chapter 13 two years ago, and I was able to get my second mortgage stripped. Currently, I am refinancing my mortgage and the bank pulled the title and discovered that the second mortgage never removed the lien. What do I need to do to fix this problem? Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    If you filed with an attorney then you should reach out to the attorney and/or the legal firm. The stripped mortgage lender was required to file a "Satisfaction of Mortgage" or otherwise "Release" the mortgage from the property. It appears as though that never happened.

    You could start by calling the stripped mortgage lender and ask them why they haven't filed a satisfaction or release of the mortgage. You could also demand that they do so because it was stripped. You can tell them that if they fail to do so with all due haste then you'll have your attorney re-open your case and file for sanctions.

    If you filed with an attorney and contact that attorney/firm, then your attorney may also do the same thing... calling the lender and demanding a release or be subject to sanctions.

    Also, your actual lien strip order may be a "recordable" document. If it's a recordable document, then you can record it with your recorder of deeds (or property appraiser or whoever maintains deeds in your city/county/state). If it's not a recordable document then you'll need to have the lender file that satisfaction/release or you (or your attorney) will need to re-open the case to have the court either issue a recordable order and/or sanction the lender.

    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks justbroke! Is the motion to avoid junior lien signed by the judge considered a recordable document?

      Comment


      • #4
        I can't tell you if the Order Granting The Motion To Avoid Junior Lien (sic) is a recordable document for your city/county/state. I suppose you could ask your county recorder if it's "recordable". To be recorded, and hence recordable, documents need to have certain features.

        In Florida, our "model" lien stripping order has the words "shall be deemed void, and shall be extinguished automatically,without further court order upon the recordation in the public records of a certified copy of this Order together with (a) a certified copy of the Debtor’s Chapter 13 discharge order in this case or (b) such other paper as the Court may specify by separate order". (emphasis added is mine) That allows us to just file a certified copy of the order after discharge if the lender gets lazy.
        Last edited by justbroke; 07-18-2016, 09:14 PM.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you justbroke! What makes it more interesting is that the bank (HSBC) recorded the lien 6 months after I was discharged. Hmmm!

          Comment


          • #6
            We had to go through an adversarial proceeding in order to complete the lien strip even though when we originally filed it was granted. The AP was expensive, but the holder of the note had a history of not releasing the deed without court order. I believe, but could be wrong, the original filing only required service through general mail and the lender did not respond. The judge that took over our case required the adversarial proceeding so that we could record it and remove the lien without the lenders involvement. It was tough coming up with the money but it was worth it. I relate it to attempting to fix a car without the proper tools. Its just better to suck it up and take it to someone who knows how to do the work.
            11/23/'10-filed ch 13. 1/6/'11-341, confirmed. Below median. Plan completed 11/30/2015. DISSCHARGED 4/4/2016.JP

            Comment


            • #7
              How much was it?
              Discharge date: October 2017 (will it ever get here?)

              Comment


              • spidge
                spidge commented
                Editing a comment
                Sorry about the late response. The cost for our AP in Riverside was $2K. There was also small fees as the order had to be certified by the court clerk and the county to record it. It was less than a dinner out for two.

            • #8
              I am seeing the same issue with my case...ch13 discharged in Aug 2016, but the 2nd lien is still on the title report (santa clara county).
              called my lawyers, and they want to charge me $500 to remove the lien??? said it was not part of the case...sigh...

              another issue is that the bank (National City Bank) who had the 2nd was bought out by PNC, but the lien still says it's on NCB...would that create more confusion?

              thanks.

              Comment


              • #9
                It won't matter the name as your attorney should ensure that they are notified. If it's $500, which is nothing to sneeze at, and the value of the lien is more then it's probably worth it to have this professionally done.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Since I got the day off today, decided to see if i can save myself $500 by doing this on my own...here's my story / info if anyone's interested...(San Jose bk court)

                  Called the clerk of county for recording, was told i need a certified copy of the judgement.
                  called the clerk of the bk court, was told to come in...
                  went to the court house where I had the 341 hearing, but it was the wrong building...the correct one is the one right across, (no line at security vs 15 min wait...sigh)
                  each certified copy is $11 plus 10 cents per page, and they need EXACT change...my cost was $22.40, but I gave them $25 instead since I did not have exact change...
                  There was only one other person in line with me at that location, oh and parking was $8 for 1st hour across st.

                  Next, went on to the county clerk's office, took a DMV style number and waited...about 15-20 min with a free 1 hr parking.
                  The guy helping me was super awesome, paid my recording fee of $31, got a receipt and went on my way...

                  The part that worried me was the lender name has changed from NCB to PNC since, but no one cared, they only go by the recorded document number at the clerk's office, which was clearly stated on the judge's order.

                  Started at 10:45am, and was done back at home around 12:40pm.

                  total cost: $8 + $25 + $31 = $64 plus two hours of my time plus some juice for my car...
                  I still wish the lawyers would have just included this final step in the case...but oh well...




                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Very nice! I am impressed.
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by itlm062 View Post
                      Since I got the day off today, decided to see if i can save myself $500 by doing this on my own...here's my story / info if anyone's interested...(San Jose bk court)

                      Called the clerk of county for recording, was told i need a certified copy of the judgement.
                      called the clerk of the bk court, was told to come in...
                      went to the court house where I had the 341 hearing, but it was the wrong building...the correct one is the one right across, (no line at security vs 15 min wait...sigh)
                      each certified copy is $11 plus 10 cents per page, and they need EXACT change...my cost was $22.40, but I gave them $25 instead since I did not have exact change...
                      There was only one other person in line with me at that location, oh and parking was $8 for 1st hour across st.

                      Next, went on to the county clerk's office, took a DMV style number and waited...about 15-20 min with a free 1 hr parking.
                      The guy helping me was super awesome, paid my recording fee of $31, got a receipt and went on my way...

                      The part that worried me was the lender name has changed from NCB to PNC since, but no one cared, they only go by the recorded document number at the clerk's office, which was clearly stated on the judge's order.

                      Started at 10:45am, and was done back at home around 12:40pm.

                      total cost: $8 + $25 + $31 = $64 plus two hours of my time plus some juice for my car...
                      I still wish the lawyers would have just included this final step in the case...but oh well...



                      This should work in any county in California if you have an order voiding lien (or some similar title). A certified copy of an order voiding lien will be recordable, even if you have to add a recording cover sheet to make room for the recording stamp. County recorders in California are typically very helpful to people trying to record a document in person.
                      LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                      Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                      $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        I recorded my lien strip order in San Bernardino County California for about the same cost. However now that I'm trying to sell my house my agent tells me that there will be a problem because the second still shows up and if my house sells the second might get paid off. She said it would be much better to get the lien removed before I try to sell. I've tried to contact the lender but I keep getting bounced around. I don't have the money to hire an attorney right now. Any ideas on how to proceed? I would think trying to get the money back after the sale would be very difficult if not impossible.

                        Chapter 13 finaled 01/2016

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Vmost View Post
                          I recorded my lien strip order in San Bernardino County California for about the same cost. However now that I'm trying to sell my house my agent tells me that there will be a problem because the second still shows up and if my house sells the second might get paid off. She said it would be much better to get the lien removed before I try to sell. I've tried to contact the lender but I keep getting bounced around. I don't have the money to hire an attorney right now. Any ideas on how to proceed? I would think trying to get the money back after the sale would be very difficult if not impossible.

                          Chapter 13 finaled 01/2016
                          Perhaps contact the bank's office of the president and start from there, Send the office of the president a copy of lien strip. If your lender is Bank of America, it is called a Deed of Release, and is usually notarized with a document number. If your lender is Wells Fargo, it is called a Full Reconveyance. My understanding is the bank must also record the deed of release or full reconveyance with the county.
                          Last edited by underh20; 12-05-2016, 12:40 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by Vmost View Post
                            I recorded my lien strip order in San Bernardino County California for about the same cost. However now that I'm trying to sell my house my agent tells me that there will be a problem because the second still shows up and if my house sells the second might get paid off. She said it would be much better to get the lien removed before I try to sell. I've tried to contact the lender but I keep getting bounced around. I don't have the money to hire an attorney right now. Any ideas on how to proceed? I would think trying to get the money back after the sale would be very difficult if not impossible.

                            Chapter 13 finaled 01/2016
                            The recording of the order removing the lien should take care of it, but I have no personal experience to prove it. Has the real estate agent talked to a title company that will insure the sale? Real estate agents don't always no what they are talking about on issues like this.

                            Don't confuse the order valuing the lien issued at the beginning of a Chap 13 with the order removing the lien that is issued after you complete your plan. It is the order removing lien that is key.
                            LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                            Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                            $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                            Comment

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