Who do you make a complaint to when your chapter 13 attorney is working against you?

[moorman]

i have a chapter 13 attorney who is not doing his job. the problem stems from a false child support claim. when i first started my plan, i had to give the trustee proof that my monthly child support obligations were being met during the period after i filed my bankrutpcy. ( filed august 2013) did this, got a email confirmation from my attorney that my plan was approved because of this. ok, i been paying arrears outside of the plan since the plan started, actually, way back to 2010. no problem. child support comes and files a proof of claim. i gave my attorney proof that i havent gotten credit for some payments they have received. my attorney stated that he wanted to increase my monthly plan by DOUBLE THE AMOUNT to satisfy the arrears obligation in 5 years or agree to a payroll deduction to keep paying the amount outside of the plan because the state is claiming i havent paid since april 2012 which is a lie because HOW would the bankruptcy trustee approve my plan after his objection? remember, it was based on me showing proof of child support payings since filing my plan. ( i filed august 2013), but i actually showed proof further back than that.

1.so, my problems is, WHY is my attorney not forcing them to correct their false claim they filed into the bankruptcy court?

2. why is my attorney ignoring the obvious fact that the state's attorney is LYING, claiming they havent received payments so that they can force me into a payroll deduction?

3. who can i complain to outside of the state bar association?

4. can i fire him for cause and get rid of the debt i owe him?

[LadyInTheRed]

My understanding is that pre-petition child support arrears must be paid in the plan and that you should only be paying ongoing child support outside of the plan. It sounds like maybe the state filed a claim after the plan was confirmed and now the plan has to be amended to pay off the pre-petition arrears because your confirmed payment is not high enough to do that. Does that sound like what's going on?

If the state's claim for arrears includes amounts that you paid, then your attorney should file an objection to the claim. Have you sat down and talked to your attorney about why he hasn't done that? What efforts have you made to get your attorney to explain things to you? I sense the problem here may be a communication problem.

The State Bar Association is where you go to report attorney misconduct. Have you already done that?

Are your attorney's fees included in the plan? If so and you fire him, you would probably have to fight in court about the fee. It sounds like you need an attorney right now. I wouldn't fire this one until you find somebody who will come in to take over.

[moorman]

My understanding is that pre-petition child support arrears must be paid in the plan and that you should only be paying ongoing child support outside of the plan. It sounds like maybe the state filed a claim after the plan was confirmed and now the plan has to be amended to pay off the pre-petition arrears because your confirmed payment is not high enough to do that. Does that sound like what's going on?

If the state's claim for arrears includes amounts that you paid, then your attorney should file an objection to the claim. Have you sat down and talked to your attorney about why he hasn't done that? What efforts have you made to get your attorney to explain things to you? I sense the problem here may be a communication problem.

The State Bar Association is where you go to report attorney misconduct. Have you already done that?

Are your attorney's fees included in the plan? If so and you fire him, you would probably have to fight in court about the fee. It sounds like you need an attorney right now. I wouldn't fire this one until you find somebody who will come in to take over.

you are correct. the pre petition arrears is what they want to include in the plan. no problem. the problem is i already have a agreement to pay monthly arrears, which i have been doing every month since i signed the agreement with child support. i filed chapter 13 to alleviate (lower) my monthly obligations. if i agree to include the arrears in the 13, it would INCREASE my monthly obligations. second, i DID talk to my lawyer and they said they would file a objection to the claim, but then came back and said that since i havent made payments since april 2012, based on what child support said, that my only options were to double my chapter 13 payments OR do a payroll deduction of the current monthly amount ive been paying all along. my lawyer didnt address the false amount OR the fact they know i been paying all along. they took a perjured statement from child support and are running with it. i looked up georgia code of canons for attorney and if i dont get satisfactory results, will fire this lawyer after obtaining another one and filing a complaint.

im sitting here with EVIDENCE IN THE BANKRUPTCY CASE that i been paying child support, which was a REQUIREMENT for my plan to be confirmed, but then my lawyer comes back and LETS child support committ perjury and file a false claim and other statements, contradicting what the TRUSTEE has already said???????? lol

[Pjmax]

As LIR said, there may just be a communication problem. I can understand that you are upset, I'd be too, but sometimes getting too emotional can hinder the progress. Maybe your attorney was having a bad day, maybe the child support folks made a mistake. I would make an appt. to see your attorney in person, have a drink or two and a goid night's sleep. Take all your payment proof to your appt, stay calm, tell him you don't understand, and ask him to explain anything that doesn't make sense. If there has been an error, staying calm is the best way to have it corrected. It's worth a shot at resolving this rather than changing attorneys now, which will probably cost you.

[LadyInTheRed]

problem is i already have a agreement to pay monthly arrears, which i have been doing every month since i signed the agreement with child support.

That was before you filed BK, right? If arrears are included in your plan, then you should stop making the payments you agreed to before you filed.

if i agree to include the arrears in the 13, it would INCREASE my monthly obligations.

According to the Bankruptcy Code, you have no choice but to include the arrears in your Chap 13 plan. See 11 U.S. Code § 507 . I'm surprised your plan was confirmed without the arrears being included. Maybe it's because the claim was filed after confirmation.

Again, if the payment is included in your plan, you should stop making direct payments on the arrears. It should not increase your monthly obligations.

second, i DID talk to my lawyer and they said they would file a objection to the claim, but then came back and said that since i havent made payments since april 2012, based on what child support said, that my only options were to double my chapter 13 payments OR do a payroll deduction of the current monthly amount ive been paying all along. my lawyer didnt address the false amount OR the fact they know i been paying all along.

Saying that the payments have to be included in the plan or that you have to do a payroll deduction does not mean that your attorney is not going to object to the claim so that you get credit for the payments you already made. You were in arrears as of the date you filed, right? That is what requires you to pay the arrears in the plan. When your attorney "came back" did he say that he was no longer planning to file an objection to the claim? Did you remind him that the amount of arrears on the claim was not correct and that an objection needed to be filed?

they took a perjured statement from child support and are running with it. i looked up georgia code of canons for attorney and if i dont get satisfactory results, will fire this lawyer after obtaining another one and filing a complaint.

You are dealing with a state agency. This is more likely an error than perjury.

im sitting here with EVIDENCE IN THE BANKRUPTCY CASE that i been paying child support, which was a REQUIREMENT for my plan to be confirmed, but then my lawyer comes back and LETS child support committ perjury and file a false claim and other statements, contradicting what the TRUSTEE has already said???????? lol

You said in your original post that the evidence you provided has to do with post-petition child support payments. But, you say the claim is for pre-petition arrears. Regardless of what you submitted before and what the trustee has said, if the claim is inaccurate, an objection to the claim should be filed.

I highly recommend you focus on trying to understand what is going on in your case, exactly what your attorney is recommending and why. Changing attorneys won't change the requirements of the Bankruptcy Code that require pre-petition child support arrears be paid as part of your plan.

[moorman]

That was before you filed BK, right? If arrears are included in your plan, then you should stop making the payments you agreed to before you filed.



According to the Bankruptcy Code, you have no choice but to include the arrears in your Chap 13 plan. See 11 U.S. Code § 507 . I'm surprised your plan was confirmed without the arrears being included. Maybe it's because the claim was filed after confirmation.

Again, if the payment is included in your plan, you should stop making direct payments on the arrears. It should not increase your monthly obligations.



Saying that the payments have to be included in the plan or that you have to do a payroll deduction does not mean that your attorney is not going to object to the claim so that you get credit for the payments you already made. You were in arrears as of the date you filed, right? That is what requires you to pay the arrears in the plan. When your attorney "came back" did he say that he was no longer planning to file an objection to the claim? Did you remind him that the amount of arrears on the claim was not correct and that an objection needed to be filed?

You are dealing with a state agency. This is more likely an error than perjury.



You said in your original post that the evidence you provided has to do with post-petition child support payments. But, you say the claim is for pre-petition arrears. Regardless of what you submitted before and what the trustee has said, if the claim is inaccurate, an objection to the claim should be filed.

I highly recommend you focus on trying to understand what is going on in your case, exactly what your attorney is recommending and why. Changing attorneys won't change the requriements of the Bankruptcy Code that require pre-petition child support arrears be paid as part of your plan.

we are pretty much in agreement and clear on everything. i HAVE been in CLEAR AND CONCISE contact with my attorney. im going to contact him again tomorrow and get this resolved. i think i MIGHT know why child support is in error on THEIR end. i will get that correct. my problem is EVERYTIME i approach my attorney with clear facts, documentation, etc. he blows it off and rolls right along. i shouldnt be the one to have to go to child support to get things clear when i have agreed to pay my attorney $4,000 to handle this bankruptcy.

as far as the payments, i have been paying it OUTSIDE the plan per the child support agreement i signed with child support BEFORE i filed. the bankruptcy attorney saw proof of that, confirmed the plan, and like you said, he knew that when child support filed a claim, THEN, i would have to include it in the plan and not pay the agreement with child support. we in agreement on that. my problem is including it in the plan would cause my plan to DOUBLE. my attorney said that CHILD SUPPORT SAID if i just did the payroll deduction, BASED ON their claim that i hadnt paid since april 2012 ( which is false and needs to be cleared up), then i can just continue on with the payments outside the plan and child support would drop their claim. the sticking point is their assertation that i havent paid since 2012. i will try and get that cleared up tomorrow, then go from there.

[moorman]

As LIR said, there may just be a communication problem. I can understand that you are upset, I'd be too, but sometimes getting too emotional can hinder the progress. Maybe your attorney was having a bad day, maybe the child support folks made a mistake. I would make an appt. to see your attorney in person, have a drink or two and a goid night's sleep. Take all your payment proof to your appt, stay calm, tell him you don't understand, and ask him to explain anything that doesn't make sense. If there has been an error, staying calm is the best way to have it corrected. It's worth a shot at resolving this rather than changing attorneys now, which will probably cost you.

you are correct. im gonna calm down and go over this again tomorrow with my attorney.

[Pjmax]

you are correct. im gonna calm down and go over this again tomorrow with my attorney.

This is the place to vent (in addition to getting some excellent advice, of course.) I know it sure helps to have somewhere to let it all out.

[despritfreya]

Most of the issues have been addressed but I want to reiterate a few of them and then explain why you have no basis to object to the POC.

1. Whatever arrangement you had to catch up the support payments that were due before you filed bk went "out the window" as of the day you filed.

2. The amount you were behind as of the day you filed bk, MUST be paid through the Plan, unless the parties specifically agree to some other payment plan (and this would be through your attny, the attny who represents the state agency, your Trustee AND the bk judge).

3. The state child support enforcement agency filed a Proof of Claim after your Plan was confirmed. I assume this happened because the claims bar date for governmental agencies had not yet passed. Your Plan MUST be amended to provide for full payment of the Proof of Claim or the parties must agree to some other arrangement which, in turn, must be approved by the bk court.

Now, having said the above, the Proof of Claim filed by the state child support enforcement agency, through the state attorney general is most likely NOT wrong.

The moment you filed bk you no longer had an enforceable catch up agreement. The fact that you continued to abide by it (very commendable on your part) is not relevant since the agreement no longer existed.

Any payment you made after the day you filed bk, that was in an amount greater than your normal monthly support payment, should have either been held in suspense pending a Court Order on how to apply it or returned to you. Remember, it is AGAINST THE LAW for ANY creditor to collect on a pre petition obligation without getting the stay lifted or some other type of stipulation approved by the bk court. Based upon this alone, the POC filed by the state agency is correct. It should not have accounted for post petition payments you made based upon your misunderstanding that you had a deal relative to paying the arrears.

This means you need to supply your attorney with each and every cancelled check or payment receipt you have relating to any and all payments made since the day your filed bk. With verifiable evidence of what the state agency received AND cashed, your attny can ask for an accounting to find out where the overpayments are. Once those overpayments are located, the parties can stipulate that they will either be applied to the pre petition arrears, used as advanced payments for the post petition monthly obligation or returned to you. Until the application of the excess amount you paid each month is ironed out there is nothing to object to.

Now, IMHO, the way this should have been handled is:

1. Before bk is filed client informs attny that he/she owes back support;
2. Before bk is filed client informs attny that he/she has worked out a catch up payment for the back support;
3. Before bk is filed client supplies attny with a copy of the WRITTEN catch up agreement between client and the state agency. In addition, client supplies a copy of the Court Order for on-going support payments;
4. Before bk is filed attny contacts the state agency (usually the attny general’s office - not the caseworker) to see if it will agree to allow payments on the back support outside the Plan based upon the written agreement client supplied. If the answer is “yes” then attny formulates a Chapter 13 Plan that specifies that client will continue to abide by the terms of the WRITTEN pre petition agreement. If the answer is “no” then attny tells client to stop paying on the back support (only pay on future monthly support as it falls due) and the Chapter 13 Plan provides for the back support to be paid through the Trustee.

So, the question is. . . Before you filed bk, did you specifically discuss with your attny how the back support was to be treated and if so, did the Chapter 13 Plan address it?


Des.

[moorman]

ok. got a update for you guys. my attorney CAME THRU for me. there was a error on child support's end as to why they said i hadnt been making payments. we got that cleared up and they found their error. after getting the communication problems worked out, they did a fantastic job of correcting the problem. im soo glad to get that behind me as it was causing a great stress knowing i had been making my payments and they said i hadnt. everything stays the same as before i filed bankrutpcy. ( payment amounts, how i make the payments, etc.) thanx for all the replies and the advice to CALM DOWN and communicate with my attorney. thanx.

[LadyInTheRed]

Glad everything worked out!

[moorman]

Glad everything worked out!

thanx.....

[kilowatt]

Hi, Check to see if bankruptcy attorny has a license to practice in your state. My attorney has a federal license, but does not have a state bar license so anything having to do with State law must be handled by another lawyer that I would have to hire. Remember he is your bankruptcy lawyer, not your civil claims and/or child support lawyer.