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Selling Your Information

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  • Selling Your Information

    OK, so I guess the courts selling your personal information to lenders is "normal", even though my bankruptcy petition is going to be denied.

    But I am getting letter with my full legal name, at my home, and with my Social Security number.

    Not only do they have my full social, but they are printing it on the envelope for the world to see!

    How the heck is this legal? Anyone who sees that envelope will have ALL of my personal information!

    Isn't your SSN protect at all?

  • #2
    Bankruptcy is a public record. The last four digits of your SSN are also visible to anyone curious. When you submitted your paperwork, anyone can view any document you submitted to the COURT. The only exception is the page where you state your full SSN. That page is visible to the court and Panel Trustee only. That is something you should have been aware of when you filed. Bankruptcy is a public record. Did you redact on any supporting documentation the first five digits whenever your SSN was used? The instructions on the paperwork were very clear on this.

    And why do you say your petition will be denied? Don't give up. You've put in too much work at this point. Do reach out for help. My guess is the moderators of this site have plenty of experience on this site, and they may have more insight. If it's the transportation issue make it a point to make it happen. Very important that you do. And only the debtor(s) on the petition need to show up.

    If you do get dismissed then understand that if you file within a year of dismissal the automatic stay is only in effect for 30 days. Get dismissed again and no automatic stay. In both cases you could go to court to get it put in place for the case duration.

    Don't give up!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by david1971 View Post
      OK, so I guess the courts selling your personal information
      Sorry to be rude but, the court is not selling anything. Bk is public record and the information YOU provided is mined by numerous companies, none of which have anything to do with the actual bk court. You really need to get rid of your conspiracy theories and that chip on your shoulder. Neither is productive or going to help you through the process.

      Des.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nodebtrenton View Post
        Bankruptcy is a public record. The last four digits of your SSN are also visible to anyone curious. When you submitted your paperwork, anyone can view any document you submitted to the COURT. The only exception is the page where you state your full SSN. That page is visible to the court and Panel Trustee only. That is something you should have been aware of when you filed. Bankruptcy is a public record. Did you redact on any supporting documentation the first five digits whenever your SSN was used? The instructions on the paperwork were very clear on this.

        And why do you say your petition will be denied? Don't give up. You've put in too much work at this point. Do reach out for help. My guess is the moderators of this site have plenty of experience on this site, and they may have more insight. If it's the transportation issue make it a point to make it happen. Very important that you do. And only the debtor(s) on the petition need to show up.

        If you do get dismissed then understand that if you file within a year of dismissal the automatic stay is only in effect for 30 days. Get dismissed again and no automatic stay. In both cases you could go to court to get it put in place for the case duration.

        Don't give up!!!
        "That is something you should have been aware of when you filed."

        Why should I have known this? And the instructions said the whole SSN.

        My petition is going to be denied, because I cannot do the 341 Meeting of the Creditors. I read that not going does not mean an automatic denial, but that 99.999999999999% that is what the Trustee does.

        But I have not given up. Closing my credit cards, that I just paid off!, and selling all of my personal information to the world, has only strengthened my resolve. But I am NOT walking for weeks in the snow!

        Comment


        • #5
          There is only one page where you put in your full SSN. Everything else is just the last four digits. Everything except that page is public information. If you knew my real identity you could look up my case on PACER too.

          How far is the hearing from where you're at? When's the hearing? The hearing location was known before you filed. Bankruptcy is serious. Before I filed I knew that sometime in mid January I'd likely have a hearing date and it would be at the federal courthouse (not a courtroom). So when I found out it was January 18 at the xxx courthouse it was not a shocker . Depending on how much time you have left it might not be too late .it should only be for a few minutes if you gave the trustee everything they asked for .

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by david1971 View Post
            My petition is going to be denied, because I cannot do the 341 Meeting of the Creditors. I read that not going does not mean an automatic denial, but that 99.999999999999% that is what the Trustee does.
            Have you moved the court to consider an excusal from attendance?


            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by justbroke View Post
              Have you moved the court to consider an excusal from attendance?

              Soon. Tomorrow hopefully I will file that. Already sent the reconsideration for fee waiver. And sent info to the trustee that I can do telephonic with a notary. I can do that. It's up to him though.

              Really? How often do people fraudulently file bankruptcy on someone else?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Nodebtrenton View Post
                There is only one page where you put in your full SSN. Everything else is just the last four digits. Everything except that page is public information. If you knew my real identity you could look up my case on PACER too.

                How far is the hearing from where you're at? When's the hearing? The hearing location was known before you filed. Bankruptcy is serious. Before I filed I knew that sometime in mid January I'd likely have a hearing date and it would be at the federal courthouse (not a courtroom). So when I found out it was January 18 at the xxx courthouse it was not a shocker . Depending on how much time you have left it might not be too late .it should only be for a few minutes if you gave the trustee everything they asked for .
                I got everything to the trustee within 24 hours of him asking, via e-mail. Has not asked for anything else. I gather it was sufficient. I did not know where the hearing was going to be located, because I did not know that an in person hearing was required. I assumed you could just do it all by mail. I think we have 2 weeks left. But it is not possible to do the 341 hearing in person.

                I have never been so happy and sad about something in my life. No, I am not giving up. I am trying. I am waiting. Maybe it will not be as cut and dry as they say. Maybe I'll be surprised and receive my paper in the mail approving it. We'll see.

                Comment


                • #9
                  All I have left to say to you is this: Make sure you communicate with the trustee and they know what your situation is. Had you filed with an attorney, they would have been able to fight for you on this to try to accommodate your needs. If you let this case get dismissed, you'll need to refile and you'll only have the automatic stay for 30 days, unless your attorney files a motion to extend it. And you better be able to convince the court you're likely to make it to discharge. Otherwise on day 31 you'll be able to be harassed by creditors and collections can continue (although creditors may have to refund any payments collected / garnished after filing if a discharge is granted).

                  All I can say is you either (1) attend your hearing, and hope that's the only hearing you have - make sure you bring ID and Social security number proof or (2) lose your discharge.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by david1971 View Post
                    Really? How often do people fraudulently file bankruptcy on someone else?
                    It happens! Some have used it as a weapon to terrorize politicians, judges, friends (well, ex-friends), and family. Some actually had innocently used the wrong social security number (transposed or never had the correct one). It does happen and this whole verification of the social security number has only become more important since the 2010 amendments to the bankruptcy code.

                    From the ABI... New Identification Procedure.
                    .
                    .
                    .
                    The USTP has begun work to initiate, in 19 districts, a pilot program that will require identification at the §341 meeting. The pilot program is modeled after the USTP's first region-wide debtor identification procedure, launched by Region 11 U.S. Trustee Ira Bodenstein in the fall of 1999. All chapter 7 and chapter 13 debtors who file in the region—which consists of Wisconsin and Northern Illinois, with headquarters in Chicago—are now required to provide the panel trustees and standing trustees with proof of identity and SSN at the §341 meeting.

                    Region 11 adopted this policy after uncovering a substantial number of instances of incorrect SSNs on bankruptcy petitions. While some of these were typographical errors, others were instances of Social Security and/or identity fraud that were referred to the U.S. Attorney's office for prosecution.
                    https://www.abi.org/abi-journal/deal...nkruptcy-cases
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nodebtrenton View Post
                      All I have left to say to you is this: Make sure you communicate with the trustee and they know what your situation is. Had you filed with an attorney, they would have been able to fight for you on this to try to accommodate your needs. If you let this case get dismissed, you'll need to refile and you'll only have the automatic stay for 30 days, unless your attorney files a motion to extend it. And you better be able to convince the court you're likely to make it to discharge. Otherwise on day 31 you'll be able to be harassed by creditors and collections can continue (although creditors may have to refund any payments collected / garnished after filing if a discharge is granted).

                      All I can say is you either (1) attend your hearing, and hope that's the only hearing you have - make sure you bring ID and Social security number proof or (2) lose your discharge.
                      Well I am definitely not going. But I am trying my darnest to explore alternatives and be upfront with the situation with the Trustee.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                        It happens! Some have used it as a weapon to terrorize politicians, judges, friends (well, ex-friends), and family. Some actually had innocently used the wrong social security number (transposed or never had the correct one). It does happen and this whole verification of the social security number has only become more important since the 2010 amendments to the bankruptcy code.



                        https://www.abi.org/abi-journal/deal...nkruptcy-cases
                        Well, as far as mistakes go, my SSN Card looks the same if I am standing next to it or not.

                        The intentional fraud? I don't know. I mean, like any fraud, I can see that it's possible. But it is just the first time in my life filing paperwork that requires me to be in person.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by david1971 View Post
                          Well, as far as mistakes go, my SSN Card looks the same if I am standing next to it or not.
                          Doesn't mean that you personally are in possession of that card or even any identification! They also make you do these things under oath so that they can prosecute those that disobey the law. Yes, people have shown up to the 341 Meeting with false identification and they were referred to the U.S. Attorney for prosecution under Federal criminal law.

                          Originally posted by david1971 View Post
                          The intentional fraud? I don't know. I mean, like any fraud, I can see that it's possible. But it is just the first time in my life filing paperwork that requires me to be in person.
                          Yes, intentional fraud. People actually do this. People do this maliciously. Some people are using false identities and still try to do this. This has all been done because, quite frankly, mistakes happen, fraud happens, and malicious filings happen. The main purpose of attending in purpose is to make statements under oath. The second purpose is to validate that the identity matches. This is one of the only things that you could mail into a courthouse and ruin someones entire life! Doesn't require a "statement" to the police or otherwise filing any sort of criminal complaint. Just fill out a petition (skeleton even) with someone you hate's SSN and name, and voila... life destroyed (since they will have a lot of explaining to do to a lot of people, credit cards not working, banks coming to repossess vehicles, and the list goes on and on and on).

                          It's a serious matter.

                          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                            Doesn't mean that you personally are in possession of that card or even any identification! They also make you do these things under oath so that they can prosecute those that disobey the law. Yes, people have shown up to the 341 Meeting with false identification and they were referred to the U.S. Attorney for prosecution under Federal criminal law.

                            Yes, intentional fraud. People actually do this. People do this maliciously. Some people are using false identities and still try to do this. This has all been done because, quite frankly, mistakes happen, fraud happens, and malicious filings happen. The main purpose of attending in purpose is to make statements under oath. The second purpose is to validate that the identity matches. This is one of the only things that you could mail into a courthouse and ruin someones entire life! Doesn't require a "statement" to the police or otherwise filing any sort of criminal complaint. Just fill out a petition (skeleton even) with someone you hate's SSN and name, and voila... life destroyed (since they will have a lot of explaining to do to a lot of people, credit cards not working, banks coming to repossess vehicles, and the list goes on and on and on).

                            It's a serious matter.
                            How do I not have the cards in my possession?

                            Getting a mortgage, credit cards, car loans, student loans, and tax returns from someone else does not harm them?

                            I know you don't make the law. It just seems inconsistent.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by david1971 View Post
                              How do I not have the cards in my possession?
                              My wording was off, but a person, who is not you, could be in possession of your social security card. Happened on my brother; complete identity stolen and the person had his social security card.

                              Originally posted by david1971 View Post
                              Getting a mortgage, credit cards, car loans, student loans, and tax returns from someone else does not harm them?[. I know you don't make the law. It just seems inconsistent.
                              They are too different things. A bankruptcy destroys all of the person's credit immediately. Obtaining a single mortgage, a car, etc only destroys that single instance of the credit. You are looking at two different parts of the law, so that's why they appear inconsistent to you. If I had a judge's name and SSN (and address) I could get a credit card in his name. What does that do? A mortgage would require identification (picture id at closing), so that would be more difficult; but still, what does that do.

                              I can take the same three pieces of information and completely trash ALL their credit, have all their credit cards closed, have some bank accounts frozen, and have their named publicly listed in bankruptcy records... all within 24-48 hours. You simply can't do that by getting a single credit card or even multiple credit cards, a mortgage, cars and a bunch of other things... in such a short period. You can't even get all their accounts closed in an instant.

                              It is specifically due to the fact that the filing of a bankruptcy will wreak financial havoc on any individual nearly instantaneously that makes this much more serious. As I wrote, filing a false bankruptcy using someone else's information has been weaponized and is simply too powerful to not require the person, who filed, show up at a Meeting of Creditors, present identification in person, and swear to the facts in the petition.

                              My brother was much better off that the person stole his identity, lived under his name, had a lease, and a few credit cards and was evicted... rather than that same person having filed bankruptcy. My brother had no clue about this until he tried to obtain an apartment lease; some years after this person stole his identity. Had it been a bankruptcy, he would have noticed the affect on his financial well being immediately (24-48 hours). Had it been a bankruptcy, it would have been very painful and difficult to get all his account and financial life back in order.

                              Again, it's a much more serious matter.
                              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                              Comment

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