My Schedules I & J - Please be cruel !!!

[Cavedog]

This is what I plan on submitting. Please be tough and let me know what you all think.
Family of 4 - Middle District Florida Ch 7.

Schedule I
Gross Monthly Income - $5140.
All Taxes - $645
Medical & Dental - 735.
401K - Zero.
Net Income : $3760.

Schedule J
Rental Home $1350
Electric & Gas $150
Water - $100
Telephone, Cable, Internet $125
Alarm Monitoring $40
Cell Phones x 2 $90
Home Maintenance $100 (Pest Control and Lawn Care)
Food $600
Laundry and Dry Cleaning $50
Clothes $100
Medical/Dental $150
Transportation $200 (Gas, Maintenance, tolls, registration)
Recreation $125 (Gym $25, entertainment $100)
Renters Insurance $30
Life Ins $50
Auto Insurance $125
Auto Installments $430 ($280 and $150 for two cars)
Total $3815

DMI = Negative 55.

[justbroke]

I don't see any problems, especially since you are under the median. I would just make sure that your values (including your rent) is correct for your specific county. Your housing is above the allowance for all counties in central Florida (middle District). Your electric and gas seems very low for Florida. Water seems just a tad high. Alarm monitoring is a luxury unless you have a court order related to violence (restraining order, etc). Food may be low for Family of 4 (the allowance is over $750).

Are you planning to file pro se?

[Cavedog]

Hi Justbroke!

Yes the rent is a bit high compared to the allowance, but not really high for that area. Being it's 2 blocks from work and only a few from doctor's office, etc, worth the cost to me. Not quite sure how that works for the schedules. Even though my expense there is above the IRS standard, can I use it?

As a husband(and security manager for 11+ years who sees criminal activity every day) who works night shift leaving a wife and 2 young kids under the age of 5 years alone 5 nights a week, personally I would consider $40 for alarm monitoring a must, but the law I am learning sees things a different way. I can always not disclose that and just add $40 to food.
We are pretty frugal with utilities. If our AC goes below 78 I freak out! Water is because with rental and this stinking drought we are in, gotta water the grass once a week(corner lot of course).

We have retained an attorney. I like to run things by this forum first.

Keep the good times rolling with the tips!

[helpmeout]

The gas and electric seem a little low, the water seems a little high (but I am going from where I live where it takes 6 months to even approach $100). You can forget about the recreation. Clothes and food are on the low side (I have a family of 3 and the allowable food is $610 and the clothing allowance is $200, you have one more person). By the time you remove some expenses and increase other expenses, it would probably be a wash, but I suggest you get it right the first time so you don't have the hassle of correcting the forms.

[momofthree]

I believe you're in the same district as Olivies, who has been in a battle over her rent expense for months (maybe even a year) now. She pays around $1500/mo for a family of 8 and has been fighting tooth and nail to be allowed the expense rather than being pushed into a ch.13. You may want to read her posts to see if you're in the same area...

Utilities look fine (though I'm used to water bills in the $150 range--water is just expensive here--not much rainfall)
medical could probably use another $100 tacked on
they may object to home maintenance when you don't own the home
recreation is high
transportation is low: if you have 2 vehicles, you should be able to double that figure

[momofthree]

Oh, and do you normally get a tax refund? Your tax withholding seems rather high for a family of 4 with your income. That's a really easy way for a trustee to find DMI, so make sure your withholding is accurate when you prepare your schedules...

[ValleYum]

Medical and dental expenses (not insurance) seem low - are you accounting for band-aids, aspirin, co-pays etc.? The standard for a family of 4 are $240. I see momofthree mentioned that, too. Maybe move the gym membership from recreation to health if your doc suggested you exercise (and whose hasn't?). momofthree also mentioned transportation looks low and I agree that you should beef it up, too.

Any education or childcare expenses for the kids? Any charitable contributions (church, United Way, etc.)?

Your renter's insurance premium seems super low (to me) - can you beef up your policy?

I will pull out my schedule in a few and see what I put on there, too.

EDIT: We *did* budget for an insurance premium increase for auto & home/renter's because of the BK. Several FL folks have mentioned that their premiums went up ~5-20% here on the boards. You may want to research that and print out any info for your "proof file" (I called my file of print-outs and research that ! LOL) or call your insurer from a phone not linked to your accounts and ask them if rates increase if you file BK.

[Cavedog]

Thanks all for the tips. I have adjusted some of my amounts around and gotten rid of a few more. I felt like I was going cheap on the water at $100 (I have had some top out at almost $200 and my lowest ever was $70), but maybe we just shower too much!

In regards to the rent question, sounds like even though I pay $1350 I should only put the guideline amount? Some of my other amounts are lower than what they have to be.

Thanks Valle!

[debee]

Leave your actual rent in the schedule. You're signing under penalty of perjury.

What you want to do is make your schedule work if the trustee backs it out.

So if you're $200 over the standard, compensate for that by beefing up elsewhere by that $200.

[ValleYum]

You are welcome Cavedog!!

Average out the water bills - if you have the actual numbers to support more than $100, use them!!

You can print out your "new" list(s) of amounts here again - we will continue to pick it apart. hehe

FYI, I also just edited above about insurance premiums.

[ValleYum]

Oh, and do you normally get a tax refund? Your tax withholding seems rather high for a family of 4 with your income. That's a really easy way for a trustee to find DMI, so make sure your withholding is accurate when you prepare your schedules...

His taxes are about 12.5%. Ours were closer to 20% and we have no state income tax here in WA (neither does FL) - and we rarely get a refund - we did the last 2 years only because of the college education credit and the Obama work tax credit. Is 12.5% high for SS, Medicare and Federal taxes? Not being snarky, momofthree, I am truly wondering.

[LadyInTheRed]

Cavedog is in the 15% federal tax bracket. I think 12.5% withholding sounds about right since being in a 15% bracket doesn't mean you pay 15% on every dollar.

[ValleYum]

Cavedog is in the 15% federal tax bracket. I think 12.5% withholding sounds about right since being in a 15% bracket doesn't mean you pay 15% on every dollar.

Thank you LITR!! So we must be in the 20% bracket thanks to hubby's retirement pay.

Yay for taxes! (yeah, sure, right!).

[Cavedog]

Yeah we looked at our taxes and we are good on that.

I will rework the numbers and re-post them tomorrow. As usual, good ideas as always from my favorite people! Too bad half of you are from the West coast. We could have a BK Group Out with the first round on me (post BK of course since I probably couldnt justify a BK party with fellow BK members on my debit card. I have a feeling that could be an expensive night :-)

[momofthree]

His taxes are about 12.5%. Ours were closer to 20% and we have no state income tax here in WA (neither does FL) - and we rarely get a refund - we did the last 2 years only because of the college education credit and the Obama work tax credit. Is 12.5% high for SS, Medicare and Federal taxes? Not being snarky, momofthree, I am truly wondering.

Maybe we just have a super great accountant, lol. Our income is higher than op (though granted we do have an additional kid AND childcare expenses to deduct), and we haven't had to pay taxes to the federal government in years. Literally, we get everything we paid in refunded to us and usually more due to child tax credits. Now we just go exempt so that no taxes are taken out of our paychecks and we still normally end up with a federal refund. We tend to owe the state a piddly amount ($134 this year).

I realize that not everyone has the same situation, but whenever I see someone with kids list a high tax amount, I like to ask just so there are no surprises down the road with sudden dmi appearing due to incorrect withholding. If it's right, then it's right, and so much the better.