2 yrs post discharge, getting sued over tall grass

[jtindisguise]

I surrendered a house during my Ch 7, which was discharged in summer 09. The city where the house is located is now suing me because the house is vacant and the grass needs cut.

I called the city and explained I surrendered the house during my bk. They said too bad. My name is still on the deed.

Is this legit? What should I do?

[sunshinepa]

Did you actually get court papers? If so, I would just call the clerk of that court, ask them how you submit discharge papers.

[sh9730]

Yes its legit. This is why so many banks DONT foreclose quickly. They dont want to take on these costs. HOA is another thing that is still your responsibility after BK until your name not on the deed. The positive side is for those that choose to, they can stay in the house for free until the bank does foreclose.

[justbroke]

I called the city and explained I surrendered the house during my bk. They said too bad. My name is still on the deed.

This is absolutely legitimate. A discharge does not take away your ownership. You are still the owner of record and the City/County/Municipality has the absolute right to fine you. Additionally, the municipality can pursue all other means of collection such as filing a lawsuit against you. You will be financially responsible for these fines, fees and costs.

This is the ugly downside of surrendering a property in bankruptcy. The bank usually doesn't want anything to do with the property. Think about it; had the bank foreclosed, they would be maintaining the landscaping (lawn), paying for heat in the winter (or winterization), and a host of other things including, but not limited to, property taxes!

What you should do is contact your attorney and have your attorney explain this to you. Unfortunately, it's the reality of the situation.

[sunshinepa]

Yes its legit. This is why so many banks DONT foreclose quickly. They dont want to take on these costs. HOA is another thing that is still your responsibility after BK until your name not on the deed. The positive side is for those that choose to, they can stay in the house for free until the bank does foreclose.

OK, need enlightened here........it isn't really a foreclosure, it's a BK discharge.......so isn't there a difference?

[sunshinepa]

This is absolutely legitimate. A discharge does not take away your ownership. You are still the owner of record and the City/County/Municipality has the absolute right to fine you. Additionally, the municipality can pursue all other means of collection such as filing a lawsuit against you. You will be financially responsible for these fines, fees and costs.

This is the ugly downside of surrendering a property in bankruptcy. The bank usually doesn't want anything to do with the property. Think about it; had the bank foreclosed, they would be maintaining the law, paying for heat in the winter (or winterization), and a host of other things including, but not limited to, property taxes!

What you should do is contact your attorney and have your attorney explain this to you. Unfortunately, it's the reality of the situation.

Thanks for the enlightenment JB, apparently I was typing same time as you!

[Justpoor]

Does this mean the name on the deed, mine, is responsible for all taxes and hoa fees? Is this since the bankruptcy dismissal or even before the dismissal? Can I force them to foreclose?

[sh9730]

Taxes go with the property as the only recourse for the taxing authority is foreclosure, so those are bank problem. HOA dues, fines etc, AFTER filing date are your problem. Insurance is a debated issue in the world as the bank will put som LOSS insurance on the property, but NOT liability insurance, so if someone falls on your property (It is still YOUR property until title transfers) you can be sued. Its a small chance I know....but I would insure it.

As for forcing the banks? Good luck....lots of stories out there just like yours. Havent read of many success stories forcing the banks to do anything until they are ready.

[Drazil65]

Our attorney has suggested that we may want to continue to pay the HOA fees on our out of state rental for this very reason. They are $106 a month and are current. I am wondering if we should have stopped paying the 1st and 2nd alot sooner (we have a tenant in it but are upside down and we subsidize the payments each month) and let them foreclose? My thinking on that would be that there would have not been a bankruptcy for the bank to hide behind and maybe would have foreclosed sooner? Of course the 1st is with BOA so I am also thinking it would not matter with their timeframe. We tried to do a short sale with them but they did not cooperate in the end (so many hoops just getting their attention to submit the SS paperwork) and it was in THEIR co-op SS program (approved for SS by them). So we decided to surrender in chp 7 when we file. Anyway, we may be paying those HOA fees for a long time to come at this rate.

[jtindisguise]

This is, or was, a Washington Mutual loan. Does that change anything?

[justbroke]

Washington Mutual, Bank of American, Lehman Brothers, First Franklin, National City Bank, Nationwide Bank, CountryWide Loans... you name them. It does not matter. The issue in this thread is one of legal title. You remain the legal title owner until the bank forecloses. There is technically no way to sue or otherwise force a bank to exercise their right to foreclose upon the collateral.

As already summarized sh9730, you generally need not worry about taxes since they are in rem -- against the property and not your personally. A bankruptcy discharge does indeed discharge all HOA fees and dues that arose prior to filing (so long as you are surrendering). However, it specifically (the discharge) does not get rid of your responsibility for HOA fees and dues that come due after filing. This is such a major pain, that some states, like Florida, have enacted legislation to ease the burden. However, even in Florida, the law only puts 12 months of tax liability onto the bank. Many foreclosures are taking 600+ days in Florida. This means that homeowners are still paying the HOA dues. HOA dues are funny since some HOAs come after you individually -- without foreclosing -- with collection and high pressure attorneys/collection agencies. Other HOAs will immediately go for the kill... foreclosure.

[Justpoor]

Justpoor, so if you can't push the bank to forclose then by not paying the HOA fees then maybe the association will forclose? Is that what you are saying? Just trying to figure out if I'm better off paying or not.

[Justpoor]

Oops, I'm Justpoor. You're Justbroke. LOL

[justbroke]

justpoor, it would be an interesting strategy, but yes. Some HOAs have actually done "reverse" foreclosures -- in Florida -- to specifically get the banks to do something. You could try it, but your HOA may be the type that will go after you and not after title to the home (via foreclosure).

[Justpoor]

Beautiful! Justbroke. Think I'll give it a try. I'm in Florida and what do I have to lose. Thank you.