I can't believe we're in this mess :(

[memama]

My husband and I filed a no-asset chapter 7 bankruptcy on April 16 and have our 341 meeting on May 24th. We had an initial consult with the attorney and felt *great* about hiring him. However, things have been a little bumpy and I'm not sure if this is outside of the "norm".

First we get a letter from the trustee a few days after we filed requesting our entire tax refund. I called our attorney and all they said was "Well, we told you they COULD take it". The problem was in the letter-it said that we *will* be receiving a large tax return and we need to surrender it when we get it. Well, we received our refund in February and spent it on daily expenses, so it's gone! The following Monday, after not getting any help from our attorney, I called the trustee's office and asked what this was about. They stated we just needed to turn in our bank statement from February showing the money was deposited and this will be corrected.

Today I got a scary letter from the bankruptcy courts stating that they were missing pay stubs and our means test! This was all information that was given to the attorney and I have no idea what's going on. Our attorney has not contacted us about missing documents and I have no idea what to do! I can tell that the assistant is annoyed with me already and we JUST filed. As a result, I feel like they're intentionally not returning our calls.

Filing for bankruptcy has been the most humiliating and emotionally charged experience we have EVER gone through. We're surrendering our home, we're moving to a new state (my husband already goes there for work and has rented an apartment for us so we'll have place to stay when this is said and done), and I feel as though our attorney is not living up to his end of the bargain I literally feel sick to my stomach...I feel like things are going to go horribly wrong for us. I feel this way because we have no reassurance from our attorney, and I constantly feel like I'm going to do something wrong without knowing it.

I don't know...are these letters normal? And should I expect any additional letters from the trustee or the bankruptcy court?

[despritfreya]

Welcome to the forum. You will find tons of info here and we will try to help you get rid of that "sick" feeling you are, but should not be, having.

1. Unless your state has an exemption that covers the tax refunds, it goes without saying that if you had received it AFTER you filed the Trustee would take it. But, since you received, cashed and spent it before filing, it is a non-issue.

2. What you received from the bk court was a "notice of deficiency". Your attny received it as well. While the failure of a law firm to file the pay stubs and means test is not common, it is not a big deal either. All documents are filed electronically. The person who uploaded your bk documents simply may have missed clicking off the box to include the missing items. I am sure the attny will rectify the problem quickly.

3. As to being concerned over how your attny's assistant feels about you - garbage. You paid for a service and have the right to make sure you are getting what you paid for. You received a document from the court that concerns you. You contact your attny. If he/she fails to respond to your call or email, you go to his/her office.

Call the attny in the a.m. and get your concerns addressed.

Des.

[tobee43]

ditto on the welcome to the forum memamma.

i'm so sorry to hear what you are going through with the law firm you hired. des has outlined a good path to follow.

i must say, i would not be happy at all about this situation, but i'm certain of one thing here, the courts know that if you hired an atty it is their responsibility to guide your hand and assist you with what is expected to be submitted. however, it is the firm that submits the documents and should be trained well enough to know what and what is not missing as well as what is exactly expected of you. it really is the firm that looks badly for leaving your pay stubs and means tests out. it's almost like the courts are letting you know they are not doing their job!

i'm certain it will all be straighten out shortly.

[Pandora]

Welcome to the forum. You will find tons of info here and we will try to help you get rid of that "sick" feeling you are, but should not be, having....

Call the attny in the a.m. and get your concerns addressed.

Des.

Just wanted to say - Des - wish more attorney's were like you...Broke the mold with you my dear Thanks for having such great ethics, both moral and work.

to the OP: Welcome to the forum - and ditto what the others have stated. Hang in there, it will get easier / better. ;)

ETA: We have awesome attorney's on here... so thanks to each of you that assist us "lowly peeps"

[memama]

Original poster here...

Thank you all so much for your kind words and advice. I just wanted to let you all know that I appreciated it.

I sent an email to the attorney's assistant last night asking what this was about, mainly just to give her a "heads up" that we got this paper and I WILL want to talk to them. I'll call them as soon as the phones are up, which is in half an hour.

I feel as though our case has been really complicated. We tried to file one day, our attorney refused to file us because we had over $400 combined in our two bank accounts, so we had to wait, then my husband got paid. I have a feeling that might be why they want ANOTHER pay stub...at least I'm guessing that this is what that's about. So if they have another pay stub, then the means test would have to be re-done?

There has also been no guidance whatsoever on surrendering our house so we have no clue what to expect there. I think it's highly unlikely that anyone will ask any questions as the assessor's office assessed our house at $160k and we owe $230k, but our attorney failed to explain to us from the get-go that while the bankruptcy discharges our debt, it does not release us from the house-the bank will still have to go through a foreclosure. At least, that is my understanding of what happens. This is an issue because we're moving out of state ASAP, so we won't be here to maintain the house. Any direction or past posts about situations like this? Despite my thoughts that surrendering a house might become more common, there is still relatively little information out there regarding the process and what happens...

[SMinGA2]

If you still filed in the same month as intended, that should not change the means test. Such as if you expected to file March 15th, and filed March 21st: the six month look back doesn't change. It would be income for Sept-Oct-Nov-Dec-Jan-Feb. If your actual file day happened in April, then your attorney would use Oct-Mar for the means test calculation.

If you had cash in your bank accounts, and no exemptions for it, your attorney did you a favor by waiting to file. Otherwise you would have had to turn that over to the trustee to distribute to your creditors. Some states do not have wild card or cash on hand exemptions.

If you're letting the house go, it doesn't really matter what its actually worth. If it would sell for more than you owed (and enough to cover selling fees) then it would be of interest to the trustee. But these days most houses are upside down, and there is no reason to pay top dollar for any house when there are so many out there selling for so little. Any taxes that come due in the meantime would be handled when the house does sell. Notify the mortgage company once you're out of the house, they will probably put insurance on it most likely. (Your homeowners policy probably is not valid for a vacant house.) One thing you may be responsible for: HOA dues (if applicable) after your file date.

[despritfreya]

wish more attorney's were like you...Broke the mold with you my dear Thanks for having such great ethics, both moral and work.

Thank you Pandora.

I must point out that I was never prefect with dealing with my clients. Perfect I am not, and perfect I will never be. With personalities being such as they are, there are times I lose my cool. This forum and others like it (but 99% this one) have given me much insight and, as a result, much, much more patience when working with my clients. It was not until I began reading posts on this site (and then posting) that I truly grasped what the person sitting across the desk from me was facing and thinking. Remember, I have been a bk attny for over 20 years. The process has been very mechanical to me even when I had to learn it all over in October, 2005 with the “new” laws. This forum has put a face to the emotions and fears consumers tend to have, so much more than I could have ever imagined in my small world. That is why I “give back”, nothing more nothing less. It breaks my heart to read the fear of posters. There is nothing to be afraid of in this process.

Des.

[AngelinaCat]

Thank you Des, for that honest 'heart to heart'. Many of us coming here to this forum, arrive(d) here because of our frustrations with our attorneys. Your contributions helps us immensely.

Thank you again!

[tobee43]

Just wanted to say - Des - wish more attorney's were like you...Broke the mold with you my dear Thanks for having such great ethics, both moral and work.

to the OP: Welcome to the forum - and ditto what the others have stated. Hang in there, it will get easier / better. ;)

ETA: We have awesome attorney's on here... so thanks to each of you that assist us "lowly peeps"

i will second and third that vote!

[Tater]

memama,

I have no words of wisdom to give you but I hope you got everything worked out with your attorney! Welcome!

Des, I have learned so much from just reading your posts. I've come up with a few questions from them to ask our potential attorney. It seems to me you have great compassion for your clients as well as the people on this forum!

[ValleYum]

Des and his advice makes me have hope.

Hope for those folks in the future who are looking at their checkbook and paystub and wondering how in the hell they got to where they are.

Hope for those that knew they were only 1 paycheck away from disaster - and you just missed that paycheck.

Was my attorney a "Des"? No, but from reading his interactions on here - I got pretty damn close.

If a new poster is here wondering how in the world a bankruptcy will HELP them - I pray they get an attorney that CARES about them and will take the time to explain things like Des does. And if you can't hire a "Des", I hope you find this forum. I really do.

This post is for you Des... we appreciate you SO much. I am quite sure the folks here sure offer you a big learning curve, eh?

PS to Memama: I hope your case goes well and that you find a "Des", too!

[tobee43]

Des and his advice makes me have hope.

Hope for those folks in the future who are looking at their checkbook and paystub and wondering how in the hell they got to where they are.

Hope for those that knew they were only 1 paycheck away from disaster - and you just missed that paycheck.

Was my attorney a "Des"? No, but from reading his interactions on here - I got pretty damn close.

If a new poster is here wondering how in the world a bankruptcy will HELP them - I pray they get an attorney that CARES about them and will take the time to explain things like Des does. And if you can't hire a "Des", I hope you find this forum. I really do.

This post is for you Des... we appreciate you SO much. I am quite sure the folks here sure offer you a big learning curve, eh?

PS to Memama: I hope your case goes well and that you find a "Des", too!

oh! don't we all! i keep wishing and hoping he'd come here and practice but no go! he's one in a million that is for certain. i think this entire forum has learned so much from the wisdom and the respect and the wondrous advise he has supplied.

[pamkev]

I fourth it about Des

[basketsbears]

To the OP - I hope all works out great for you!

Des - I, too, have learned so much from you on this forum. Many times reading your advice has eased my fears and given me the patience to wait until we file this summer.
Thanks Des!

Lynn

[df04527]

Make that five on Des! Lots of respect for you my friend.