Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

How accurate are the home value sites (Zillow) compared to TMV?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How accurate are the home value sites (Zillow) compared to TMV?

    I am in panic mode at the moment (trying to keep my house in Ch7) and many of the estimates by various home sites are putting my homes value sky high. I tried about a dozen and there is a bit of a range, so I am curious how accurate they are. And if there ends up being much of a difference between their estimates and True Market Value. I found a few articles on the topic and supposedly Zillow has admitted that they can be off (+/- 5%). But I was hoping people on here have had some experience with this? I posted a similar question before but the stress of this is killing me (not sleeping) and my attorney isn't saying much besides that it's possible to keep your home even if its a bit over the homestead allowance. I have a ton of paperwork to still fill out so it will be a week or so before I get to sit down with him.

    I also ran Zillow's comparison tool, it found 10 similar homes and made adjustments to their prices. It estimated the market value of my home about 20k less than the price estimate average of the sites I tried (including Zillow). Does anyone know how accurate that is and if it can be used in during filing as one of the reasons you came to the number you put down?

    Last question, if you do use the comp number can you also list repairs needed to go with it? Oh second last question (lol), can you pay for an appraisal of JUST a comp calculation from a reputable place to send with it to help?

    Thank you guys so much!

  • #2
    Online tools, such as Zillow, Redfin, and others, are simply a quick look at value. They are not a good source for true market value (TMV). I have personally found that some other online automatic valuation methods (AVMs) are better. The one at Bank of America's website is not bad, and the ones that you pay for are not too bad.

    eppraisal will show you they valuation as well as Zillows (side-by-side).

    For my home, this is what I get between two of the AVMs.
    Zillow: $633,000 (range $599,000 - $665,000)
    BofA: range $522,000 - $629,000


    http://www.zillow.com
    https://realestatecenter.bankofameri...ketvalue4.aspx
    http://www.eppraisal.com/
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      OK, I just tried them:

      BOA: 246,565 to 288,219
      eppraisal: 242,580
      Zillow: 262,637
      Zillows Comp tool: 246,669

      Did you submit a value with your filing paperwork, along with any type of "proof" on why you chose it?

      I do need to be in the low to mid 240's to have a shot at Ch7. I wonder how I should approach this, or if I should get an appraisal done. I know my attorney should be answering these questions but I was hoping to get some ideas on how to prepare.

      Oh, and of course these calculations do not figure in the condition of your home, I wonder if you can use repairs needed and problems as reinforcement for the value you send in.

      Thank you very much, you have helped me out a lot here.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't understand why you would need to have a certain property value to file a Chapter 7. Please enlighten me!

        For my valuation, I used a "paid for" valuation from an online AVM that charged $30 for a valuation. They were the most accurate. I was doing a lien strip, so I also had a full residential appraisal done (on a Uniform Residential Appraisal Report - URAR) by a licensed appraiser. They nearly matched. Zillow was at least $60,000 off (on the high side).
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


        • #5
          I am trying to stick within a reasonable range of the homestead allowance to keep my house in a Ch7. Here we are only given a 15,000 equity ceiling. My attorney said we could go a bit over that and still be able to get approved. (he said the courts don't like being in the real estate business so can be a bit flexible). Anyhow I am hoping to come in as low as possible so when we submit the "value of property amount" (or whatever it's called) I have a chance at keeping my house. I am not sure though how that works and what the court will take as proof on what they could sell it for. I do know that it wont go for as much as some numbers I am getting back due to various repairs. So I was also curious if they let you give an explanation on the submitted amount as well.

          Side Note: I meet all other requirements for chapter 7 so this is the only hangup for me.

          Comment


          • #6
            You would still be allowed to file and receive a Chapter 7 discharge. The issue would be whether the Trustee wants the non-exempt equity. The Trustee can still question and should question something that appears to be undervalued. The Trustee will often look to the same sources you're using (Zillow) and will sometimes use your local taxing authorities numbers (e.g. your Property Appraiser or Taxing Authorities numbers for your home's market value).

            You do not get to submit an explanation of value. It's just a number. In cases where it is close, I personally suggest that people get an actual full appraisal completed. A full appraisal could cost $250 for a property of that value. I think you're right on the cusp and the Trustee will likely notice. Continue to work with your attorney for their advice.
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Once again thank you. So they just take what places (like Zillow) list and run with it? Almost every house around me sold 10 - 15K than their Zillow estimate. Will a full appraisal count more than Zillow's estimate for the Trustee? That seems like a crappy way to do it (of course not surprising), considering the range across the sites is huge. Plus well, they won't get as much as those places say I am sure. /shrug

              I will talk to my attorney about it, I guess I need to be prepared for a 13. =/

              Comment


              • #8
                I would just talk to my attorney about what you should use for valuation at this point. Zillow is not a "recognized" or reliable source when it comes to best evidence of value. Only a licensed professional (typically a real estate appraiser licensed in the State of the property) providing either a uniform appraisal or testifying as to the value, is the best. The Trustee is going to do some due diligence short of a full appraisal. I know that many, at least in Florida, will use the tax appraiser's value (since they are public and the valuation methods are somewhat defensible).

                I only suggest that an appraisal may be better because you are so close and every dollar is going to matter. I would certainly review the best source with my attorney.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm just checking in quickly and haven't read the other responses, so I apologize if this has already been said. The only way to know for sure what the value of any real estate is (or other asset for that matter) is to put it on the open market and sell it. In the BK context, if the trustee disputes whatever value you use and you don't reach an agreement, the judge will determine the value based on the evidence he finds more convincing. That evidence could include the testimony of appraisers, if you and/or the trustee decide it is worth paying an appraiser to testify to support his/her appraisal.

                  ETA: For my refinance, the appraised value was $465K. Zillow, without me adjusting the comps, was $470K. I don't remember what redfin was, but it was much lower, closer to $400K. Just like 2 appraisers can come to vastly different values, so will two pieces of software.
                  LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                  Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                  $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So the testimony of an appraiser can be pretty strong in this situation? I do know every single site I have ran had me pretty high. I know the house is not worth as much as those sites are "guessing" due to the problems with it (if I tried to sell it). One big one for me (for better or worse) is my in ground pool needing removed. The crack can be fixed (3500 avg) but the sides are bulging and it has floated noticeably raising the patio around it. To remove it costs about 10K and does not included re-landscaping. On top of that the place is in heavy need of TLC considering I couldn't maintain it due to being broke. Landscaping and curb appeal is horrible and pales in comparison to the other similar homes. I could make a pretty big list (even a section of fence is being held up by a rope and the brick mailbox is falling over). Looking at the comps condition vs my own (and the comps selling / sold for much less than online value already) I would put my house at 240s not 260s. I mean I guess if they took it they could dump 20k or more to sell it (lol).

                    Sorry for carrying on, I am just so stressed right now, and this is frustrating.

                    Anyways I appreciate all your responses also LadyInTheRed, you have given me a bunch of insight.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A written appraisal by a licensed appraiser trumps just about everyone else. Testimony, under oath and subject to cross-examination, is the higher standard. It would be expert versus expert, but it hardly ever comes to having an appraiser, or expert, testifying at a hearing. In the supermajority of cases on valuation, the debtor would likely submit a written appraisal (performed by a licensed appraiser). The Trustee may take that value or hire their own appraiser. Either way, it's not worth speculating as to how far this goes. Value is subjective and no one knows the true value of a property until a willing buyer agrees to purchase from a willing seller.

                      If spending $250 on an appraisal would put you at ease, I would talk to my attorney and tell them that I'm just going to get the appraisal done. It would be the "best" evidence of value and a Trustee is far more likely to accept the appraisers report as to the value.
                      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks Justbroke, I appreciate it. This gives me a glimmer of hope.

                        Comment

                        Unconfigured Ad Widget

                        Collapse
                        Working...
                        X