The importance of RESEARCH

[ColoradoBell]

Whether it be online, in forums such as this one, reading case law, statutes for our particular state, research is important.

I was reading BK case law rulings today all day and my eyes are bleary! but I learned some things that may effect my case.

I'm dealing with being forced into BK due to the court ordered sale of a property I live in but own only 60% of...the other 40% is owned by a very nasty ex. I didn't quibble with the court ordered sale because it allowed us to buy out each other's share at any time. However, it didn't specify that one of us (ex) could put impossible constraints on the others (my) buy out. Bottom line, there is a contract on the house for a measley amount (compared to appraised value) which wouldn't cover debt I owe to ex and his attorney (which was ordered by a very friendly to ex judge and not part of the divorce decree/orders)

But I digress:

I asked EVERY attorney versed in RE law if I could force my buying X's share based on the price of this contract that he approves but I believe is way low. (BTW, Ex is a doc married to a doc making @$700k a year and does not need this money. conversely, it is the only asset I was awarded in the divorce) Everyone said nope, no statutory right to buy out his share without his agreement.

Not true....CRS 38-28-101 partition by concurrent interest holders.

Of course I would have to file that in the same court as friendly to ex judge (I want so badly to say 'crooked' but don't want to offend anyone.)

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo,
Could I file for BK based on the sale contract and avoid judgment liens (two of which ex filed on his own property against me) that effect my homestead.
AND THEN
Partition the regular court to partition based on that sale price to buy out ex's share?

I read that in a Ch 11, a debtor can base a reorganization on the fact he must keep the property he owes $$$ on in order to sell it to pay off debts. Do BK rules for 11 ever get applied to a 13? (Meaning that in order to pay off my unsecured creditors I need to keep the house and market it so that it will bring in enough to cover my debts.

Boy, would that help this girl out! I'm so distraught that I might be homeless in 30 days that I can hardly stop crying to read that dang case law!

[HHM]

If you really only have 30 days, you need to get an attorney ASAP and file something. All this humming and hawing you have been doing is wasting time. I fear that your delay has already sealed your fate.

[ColoradoBell]

It may be that my fate is sealed.
The contract for sale and closing w/in 30 days was signed Friday...unless contingency buyer decides to forego contingency (they have til Monday to decide). The contingency contract had called for closing in October, so I had time....but not now.

Finding $5k to just file with M & Asso, 11k to ask for mod if maintenance and 20k to get the retirement money I am due and 10k for RE lawyer....well, that's the rub isn't it.

[Flamingo]

You can drive yourself crazy researching stuff and as HHM stated, wasting your time if you have or had deadlines. Competent, experienced attorneys are out there - you just have to pick up the phone as I advised you last week with a good source and find one. You need one that is top notch in your state when it comes to BK and divorce property settlements, etc. It is not that complicated to find one. Another good place for a reference would be the attorney who represented you in your divorce. They all network.

[newbie2]

Finding $5k to just file with M & Asso, 11k to ask for mod if maintenance and 20k to get the retirement money I am due and 10k for RE lawyer....well, that's the rub isn't it.

You're going to drive yourself into stress induced health issues unless you take one bite at a time out of that proverbial elephant.

Prioritize. First things first. Do what has been advised and find a competent bk attorney (others above have advised on how to do that.) Once this part is taken care of then tackle the next issue, then the next.

Good luck to you.

[ColoradoBell]

I'm sure what I say will sound defensive, and I guess that I am. On Friday, when I found out about this sudden and short closing date, I spent 8 hours on the phone calling BK attorneys. There is only 1 in my mountain town and he is semi retired and only does simple cases. It's a 2 hour drive to Denver. On Friday I spoke with 7 ssecretaries and 8 attorneys, ALL of whom were polite, but not one of whom wanted to take my case. The 7 sec'y took my info and said an attonrey would get back to me. Today, 3 of them did and none felt dealing with real estate/divorce issues was his forte. I spent all day today calling even more attonreys and trying to get an appt for tomorrow. Not one appointment...3 are getting back to me.

So unlesss you've walked in my shoes, please don't assume that I'm not trying. It is NOT easy to find representation when you don't have a simple CC debt case. If you still believe it is...maybe i should pay you a finders fee to find that competent attorney for me.

newbie, I already have a pretty serious stress induced health issue: heart condition, a-fib. It kicks in when Im under too much stress and knocks me out for 3 hours...makes driving on the interstate to Denver a scary proposition, but I'm doing the best I can.

[HHM]

You are fulfilling your own prophecy. By taking no action, the invertible will happen and at that point, it will be your fault, not your ex, not some crooked lawyer, yours! However, you won't see it that way. Forgive me for my speculation, but subconsciously, I don't t think you want to do anything, because then you wouldn't be a victim anymore. You couldn't blame everyone else, it would be on you at that point, and I don't think, psychologically, you are prepared for that responsibility.

I KNOW you have talked to attorneys that CAN help you whether you believe it or not. However, you are getting to the point where it may already be too late, for any attorney to take your case, figure it out, and implement a plan to deal with it will probably take several weeks.

[spetkovich]

Just to second what HHM said.

You've been describing your situation on here for quite awhile, and always claim that it's too difficult to find an attorney. In part, you're correct that there are fewer BK specialists out there than there are attorneys who will handle simple $20,000 credit card cases.

However, this isn't the real problem for why I believe you haven't been able to find an attorney. It's my impression that the real reason you haven't been able to find an attorney is because of unrealistic expectations.

Bankruptcy will not solve everything. True, your issues are complicated. However, bankruptcy is not a panacea that will allow you to wrap everything up nicely. Sometimes bankruptcy can help, sometimes it can't.

Attorneys sometimes refuse a case because it's just "too difficult." More often, however, attorneys refuse cases because clients seem to have unrealistic expectations regarding their conceptions of success in the legal process. Perhaps the best lawyer thinks that, on your BEST day in court, you'd only be able to get 30% of what you're asking for-- but also gets the impression that you'll raise holy hell if he gets you anything less than 75-100% of what you want. No lawyer in his right mind will accept you as a client, because regardless of the merits of your case, you are a potential problem waiting to happen.

Adjust your expectations, and you might have greater success.

[ColoradoBell]

WOW...speculation is really rampant here.
And it is certainly uninformed (as to my particulars) speculation.

I am only asking for one thing...to stay the upcoming sale of my house.

PERIOD.

I am not asking to have any unsecured debt discharged; I 'm not asking to hae a miracle. ONly to stop the sale and exert my BK statutory right to buy out my ex's share at more than the current valuation.

So while I can't stop your speculation, I am asking you to please cease.

Thanks

[newbie2]

WOW...speculation is really rampant here.
And it is certainly uninformed (as to my particulars) speculation.

I am only asking for one thing...to stay the upcoming sale of my house.

PERIOD.

I am not asking to have any unsecured debt discharged; I 'm not asking to hae a miracle. ONly to stop the sale and exert my BK statutory right to buy out my ex's share at more than the current valuation.

So while I can't stop your speculation, I am asking you to please cease.

Thanks

(I bolded that line for clarity) Since you are needing one thing only from a BK filing, then it should be much easier for you to find an attorney to handle it. Stopping the sale of a home is not unusual in a bk.

Good luck to you.

[LadyInTheRed]

ColoradoBell, I think you misunderstand what it means to partition the property. It would not give you a right to buy your ex's interest. It would only give you a right to sell your share without his involvement. Yes, under the statute you cite, a partition action could lead to another court ordered sale under certain circumstances, but how do you know you will be any happier with that sale? Even if it's not too late for a partition action, it would be expensive.

A court order allowing you to buy out your ex's interest doesn't necessarily require him to sell his interest to you. If the order does in fact require him to sell his interest to you, you have the means to buy him out and he refuses to sell, then you need to go back to court and have the judge force him to sell. If the judge is so crooked that he won't enforce his own order, then further action needs to be taken against the judge. On what kind of terms are you proposing your ex sell his interest to you? Do you have $240k in cash to pay him? Have you been approved for a loan to buy out your share? Or are you expecting him to take back a note? If the later is the case, his refusal to sell would not be unreasonable.

Your situation is too complicated for people here to be able to give you much real help, despite their best efforts. You need to stop wasting your time doing your own research and posting here and focus on finding one or more attorneys (BK, Real Estate, Divorce) who can help you. If you find a good BK who can help you and is willing to file an emergency BK petition to delay the sale, he should be able to refer you to any other attorneys you need. If you are being realistic in your expectations and not saying things to attorneys to scare them off, you should be able to find an attorney who can handle this. It may not be easy for a complex case, so don't give up. There are lots of attorneys in Denver and you can probably get their help without having to make the 3 hour drive. Just get back on the phone and keep trying. Finding an attorney seems to be the only hope you have of keeping the house.

I don't want to make any assumptions. But, I've gone through some of your posts and you say keep saying you've been ripped off by the receiver, your ex and the judge. Whether that is true or not, if you are telling potential attorneys that, they will run as far from you as they can. Make sure you stick to facts without any comment about being treated unfairly. Let attorneys review all facts and draw their own conclusions about what is fair. I'm not saying you haven't been ripped off and treated unfairly. Nobody here has an objective enough view or enough facts to make such a determination. I also have no idea what you have told attorneys. But, just in case you are giving them more than the facts, keep in mind that if you complain about how unfair the system is that they work within and how the participants in that system are all ripping you off, you are putting up a huge red flag. If you feel must share your complaints, save them for after you hire the attorney and he/she has come up with a game plan.

Now, get off of this site, do some more research on attorneys and get ready to make some phone calls in the morning! Best of luck to you and please report back how things go.

[HHM]

WOW...speculation is really rampant here.
And it is certainly uninformed (as to my particulars) speculation.

I am only asking for one thing...to stay the upcoming sale of my house.

PERIOD.

I am not asking to have any unsecured debt discharged; I 'm not asking to hae a miracle. ONly to stop the sale and exert my BK statutory right to buy out my ex's share at more than the current valuation.

So while I can't stop your speculation, I am asking you to please cease.

Thanks

Give me a break, that is not the ONLY thing you want to do. That is why I think spetkovich is spot on with his analysis.

As you have discovered, it is just not that simple. It sounds like every attorney you have spoken too in some manner has said that, either by simply saying they want nothing to do with it, or quoting a fee that maybe you cannot pay.

No one is trying to be mean spirited, all we can provide is our perspective based on the information provided, so that is what you got. You can take it for what it is worth, but my sense is, based on your reaction, there is a kernel of truth to what I and spetkovich said.

The clock is ticking, my sense is, if you don't have an attorney hired by Friday to start working on this, you will have fulfilled your own prophecy.

[ColoradoBell]

Lady in Red...thank you for your input. There are Colorado state statutes re partition and yes, they would go before the district judge and unfortunately not go anywhere or against me . However there are also BK statutes re my rejecting an executory contract and a sort of partition in the BK court which would require him to sell his share to me, as long as its for more than the contract price he's approved (at least that's what a very good BK attorney/judge told me) . Since divorce orders allow for a buy out, the BK court wouldn't be 'overturning' any state orders, but instead 'implementing ' them. There is now an order (today) that I vacate the house, but luckily not an order approving the sale..so again, this might help re the BK court. Hoping so.

HHN: I may be of an older generation than you, but in my generation, offering unsolicited judgments against people is mean spirited. RE what attorneys I've calledhave told me:
(and of course the attonreys could be just being nice) is that they either don't do litigation, 13s, or think I need a more experience attorney. No lawyer has quoted a price, but instead they have all offered referrals.

RE my complaints raising red flags. Yes, I agree that this might send a lot of attorneys running or lead to their being 'put off'. And I have mentioned it to them, tho not as blatantly as on this forum, when asked why I don't do this through the state court. I guess I don't know how to answer any other way. So I accept your advice re sticking to the facts and not complaining about the system to attorneys who work in the system as good advice.

As for the truth of my allegations, the attorney /judge I mentioned above knows the particular judge in my divorce and thus knew exactly what I was complaining about. (She doesn't do 13s, but will take my case if I do a 7 and I'd be lucky for it.) But she and JC both cpnjectured that saving my house would be better served by a 13. If you wnat to do your own research on the subject, you could look up the Kobe Bryant rape case which would lead to the sanctions imposed on the judge and maybe some other info, like that his sidekick judge was forced into retirement and is being sued by an attonrey in US court for taking bribes. I made the observation that the only way you can get kicked off the bench in Colorado is by enjoying hookers too openly.

I don't want more than I said I wanted...to buy out x 's share off the house so I can do with it what I want. That's what my BK 13 plan entails...buying out his share and paying off all the debt that would remain.Your dead wrong about that. If I did a 7, I wanted to preseerve my homestead exemption...in a 7 there would be no money left from the sale to pay judgment liens or unsecured debts. In a 7 it would more likely entail the trustee selling the house or accepting the Receiver selling the house.
Yes, i'd borrow the buy out money from family, paying interest only til the house sells which would be much less than rent. No, I wouldn' even think of MY ex taking back a note when he refuses to give me the money he was court ordered to give me (...but that makes me laugh and I need a good laugh today)

I admittedly don't know law, but I'm well versed in real estate and developent, so yes, that IS what I want, to keep the house and sell it later for over twice as much.

Finally, I understand your point that people here aren't equipped to address legal strategy of my problem as it is 'out of the norm' . But I've posted lots of questions (dumb newbie type of questions) and rec'd some great answers which led me to a possible plan.


But I digress. After spending 8 hours on the phone again today (contacting lawers referred to me by John Clarke who doesn't do litigation BK anymore but is still brilliant), I still have stuff to do. Two attorneys want a lot of information from me before our meetings. All forms, schedules and documents are filled out.