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file BK without spousal approval.

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  • file BK without spousal approval.

    I'm not sure how to ask this, I have tried to find the answer on this board but I just get more confused with each bit of information I find.

    I am in need of filing for chapter 7 but my husband makes a healthy income and he will not agree to file. There are reasons for him to decline.

    My question is, what will happen to me if I file for a chapter 7 , but if they include his income, I cannot pass the means test. I have just slightly above minimum wage income and have $48,000+ for unsecured debt.

    He will not pay anything towards my debt, yet on the means test, it says that we have too much disposable income left over each month. It will not do any good to wait longer because is income level will not change and neither will mine. There has to be other people in this situation.

    Can someone maybe direct me to someplace where I can find information?

    I'm sorry for asking this, but I promise that I have searched for this information before asking. I just get overwhelmed.
    Last edited by AngelinaCat; 08-25-2013, 10:42 PM. Reason: broke a long post into paragraphs to make it easier to read

  • #2
    Hi and welcome to the forum!
    You are not the first to come asking this q...
    You guys need to see a counselor and FAST. It's pretty important to be on the same page here.
    BK can be very stressful and it sounds like there is a pretty high stress level in your house already. Sounds like your dh is in some kind of denial and is not willing to be part of the solution to the problem.
    To answer your q.... it's going to depend on whether or not you have any debts in common. What's the story with the house, the car, the cc's?

    Keep On Smilin'

    Comment


    • #3
      we are not on the same page at all regarding this. Without going into too much detail, I have run up some high debt and he has bailed me out a few times and the last time was the last time he will help me. He is not the bad guy. This is my fault. I've caused him a lot of stress. I'm on my own to find a way out. And he is very concerned about his credit being hurt and he didn't do anything to deserve this. I've made a mess of our lives.

      Comment


      • #4
        Not placing any blame!!!! That's not what we are here for. We're here to support you all the way through. We'll hold your hand and send hugs and the occasional gentle reprimand when needed. But regardless .....you might want to visit a counselor. Shopping can be an addiction just like drugs, sex, alcohol. Maybe you can just go shop in thrift shops..... lol.... that's how I get my fix and it's cheap . If you don't get your spending under control, a bk won't help you.

        Anyhoo back to the main q.... is your name on the mortgage? or other joint debts? This is important.

        Others will be along. It's often quiet here on the weekend.

        Keep On Smilin'

        Comment


        • #5
          Thing is,after his income is disclosed he then backs out the debts he is responsible for paying. With you just making minimum wage, it sounds like his income is supporting your hh.
          You need to speak with a few bk lawyers and get all of your options explained. Most will give free or lowcost initial consultations.
          Your bk will have no affect on his credit as long as any joint debts continue to be paid.

          Comment


          • #6
            I know I need to speak to an attorney, but I want to learn as much as I can beforehand. I had hopes I could do this on my own but the more I read, the more I see that my husband will be drawn into this and that is what I am trying to avoid. The mortgage is in both names, as are both cars. Most of our credit cards are in both names. When he would try to do things in his name in the past, I felt left out and insisted on joint accounts.
            I know I have done wrong. I want to make everything right. I thought my last resort was always BK and now I am realizing that it's not going to be the easy answer?

            Comment


            • #7
              With both names on everything you will not be able to file alone.
              You need to start making some phone calls to attorneys and counselors. If you plan to stay married, he will need to part of the solution.
              You can explore the (rather limited) possibilities here and with some attorneys.
              Perhaps a settlement can be negotiated... but dh needs to understand that his credit may very well be threatened regardless. He needs to come read up here or visit a lawyer and understand bk. With his salary, you'd probably wind up in a 13. Maybe he'd be better off paying off the debts and then taking over all shopping responsibilities. Cash would be king, no cc's allowed... period.
              Good luck. Keep us posted!

              Keep On Smilin'

              Comment


              • #8
                That's what I was afraid of. I just made a mess of things. Thank you for taking the time to try to help.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kathyc02124 View Post
                  we are not on the same page at all regarding this. Without going into too much detail, I have run up some high debt and he has bailed me out a few times and the last time was the last time he will help me. He is not the bad guy. This is my fault. I've caused him a lot of stress. I'm on my own to find a way out. And he is very concerned about his credit being hurt and he didn't do anything to deserve this. I've made a mess of our lives.
                  Welcome Kathy to the Forum. KS has done a dandy job explaining that we are all here to help you not judge you. We have all learned of our mistakes. Most are fortunate not to repeat them.

                  I will be as subtle as I may be, but honest with you. First, you state he (your hubby) has bailed you out a couple times, meaning you got discharged of your debt (by his help). If I'm reading you right, this was the implication. That being said, if you do BK, what will keep you from needing us in 8 years for another 7? You are commended for being open and honest in that yes, the problem lies with your spending habits.

                  Now some facts: IF you bk without permission or honesty your troubles will have just begun. You will have violated your moral principle in your marriage and possibly suffer far worse than a bankruptcy.

                  Don't let my candid honesty drive you away from here, for help is here. Admit to him what you have done. Tell him fully what you had in mind, but ask him to bail you out one more time if he is able. PROMISE (as well as seek professional counseling in your spending habit) and drop your spending rights on any check book or CC cards.

                  From the little you told us, all in all, you are far better off than many here, family wise. I don't know if you have children but even as a couple, it is apparent you both care for each other. Don't muddle the fuddle with any hidden pranks as if and when you file, BOTH your names will be mud in the credit score. That is a fact.

                  It is pleasing that you admitted your responsibility in this situation. Keep that up front with your husband by all means.

                  Again, we have all made our own mistakes and I don't throw stones at another persons mistakes, as I live in my own "glass house". Consider what I and we said and will say when you ask further questions. Please keep us all informed as WE CARE. 'Hub
                  If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You need to stop blaming yourself. That is not helpful to anyone... and ya know what? Marriage takes two. If he had to "bail you out" a few times than he could have been working with you to get you help if you needed it.
                    Anyway, make some phone calls tomorrow one way or tother. You are going to need a little extra support to get through this.
                    PLEASE stay in touch here and let us know how and what you are doing.

                    Keep On Smilin'

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Kathy, welcome. Sorry about your situation, I feel for you. The $48,000 debt, is it on your joint credit cards, or is this something separate? I can understand that your husband may not want to bail you out again, but if it is on your joint cards, he can't just pay his charges and leave yours and expect it not to affect him. If you have incurred this debt because of a shopping problem, you really should consider counseling. Please understand this is not a judgement thing, just trying to help.

                      I would suggest you also consider closing all your joint cards. Any cards you keep open should be in his name only. Don't think of this as a being 'left out.' At least the situation won't get any worse. Work on a budget for yourself. How much can you pay on your debt every month? If you were to file BK, you would have to learn to live on a cash basis anyway, so why not do this while you work through the big problem of how and why you got into debt?

                      Lots of good folks on this site that will help you, even if you just need a shoulder to lean on.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        PJmax and KS are right. After BK, you will HAVE to learn cash only. Impress hubby by practicing as of NOW as if you cannot pay for it today, you cannot afford it at all. Actually, you need to separate your "wants" from your "needs" and only buy the needs. Since our 7, we have only used a debit card that will not work once we exceed our budget. A good "insurance" is to fold up a 100 dollar bill into your wallet and forget about it as an insurance in the event you cannot pay for your meal or the card locks up. This is called "self control". It is difficult and needs to be practiced daily. Love in God to you and yours. 'Hub
                        If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Kathy,
                          You have gotten excellent advice already here.

                          Let me tell you a little of my hubby and I experience while not the same in some ways he still was angry when I approach him with the BK Idea.
                          I was the one in charge of the money paying the bills etc all was well until I started having medical issues and that was also the same time when the economy went south and his hours were cut at work. Instead of going to him I started the robbing Peter to pay Paul routine didn't help dug ourselves in deeper.

                          Feb 2012 I finally went to him with the BK idea he was angry at first and wanted nothing to do with it. I made lawyer appointments and he went along with me. This really opened up a honest talk about money where he saw he was also part of the problem, he is the shopper in the family,I am not.

                          All that to say it has brought us to be closer and honest with ourselves. We learned to live on cash only even though we have 1 credit card between us that is used and gets paid off right away. We now have savings that if a emergency comes up we have the money to paid for it.

                          Please know you have support here and among friends

                          Pam

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kathyc02124 View Post
                            we are not on the same page at all regarding this. Without going into too much detail, I have run up some high debt and he has bailed me out a few times and the last time was the last time he will help me. He is not the bad guy. This is my fault. I've caused him a lot of stress. I'm on my own to find a way out. And he is very concerned about his credit being hurt and he didn't do anything to deserve this. I've made a mess of our lives.
                            Originally posted by kathyc02124 View Post
                            I know I need to speak to an attorney, but I want to learn as much as I can beforehand. I had hopes I could do this on my own but the more I read, the more I see that my husband will be drawn into this and that is what I am trying to avoid. The mortgage is in both names, as are both cars. Most of our credit cards are in both names. When he would try to do things in his name in the past, I felt left out and insisted on joint accounts.
                            I know I have done wrong. I want to make everything right. I thought my last resort was always BK and now I am realizing that it's not going to be the easy answer?
                            It is good that you are accepting responsibility. But, your husband is not blameless. He agreed to joint accounts and allowed the charges to continue even after bailing you out in the past. He needs to accept his part in this so you can work together on a solution. If he just lets it be your problem, as justified as he may be, he will be affected. If he is so fed up that he is unwilling to work with you, you may need marriage counseling before attorney consultations.

                            Perhaps a good first step would be to cut up all of your credit cards and give the pieces to your husband.
                            LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                            Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                            $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
                              It is good that you are accepting responsibility. But, your husband is not blameless. He agreed to joint accounts and allowed the charges to continue even after bailing you out in the past. He needs to accept his part in this so you can work together on a solution. If he just lets it be your problem, as justified as he may be, he will be affected. If he is so fed up that he is unwilling to work with you, you may need marriage counseling before attorney consultations.

                              Perhaps a good first step would be to cut up all of your credit cards and give the pieces to your husband.
                              LOL! VERY good point. 'Hub
                              If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                              Comment

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