Political Discussion

[jacko]

Could you please elaborate on 'following the constitution, freedom, and returning our liberties' ?

Just curious how is following the constitution, freedom, and returning our liberties scary? Also, leaving it up to the states to decide on policies? In my opinion, 30 years of our current system and foreign policy is what's hurting people around the world not just in America.

Can you please give some examples of what you think are extreme?

[jacko]

UE problem?

[jacko]

Typical blame the media mantra. Why would voters vote for candidates that do not agree with their views?

[IamOld]

My issue with that is that societies that do have, in your words, 'handouts', are better off - we have 30% of our population in poverty, folks, living paycheck to paychecks, kids graduating with crushing debt just to go to college, people, well, in bk because of medical debts, the top 1% owning almost 50% of all wealth...this does NOT happen in Europe or Canada, period. We are about 50 years behind the rest of the developed world.

Sadly helmeout has just proved my point. A lot of folks are so used to the handouts since FDR's "new deal", LBJ's "Great Society" and the rest from then to now that people no longer even realize just how much liberty and freedom we surrendered for free stuff.

Helpmeout is pretty much correct. A lot of people so used to the govt solving their problems will be hurt since they know of no other way.

R.P. just wants to go back to the days of a Constitutional America starting with abolishing the bankster controlled Fed and phasing out costly entitlements and expensive wars.

The bright side to this would be a sound financial free market system that doesn't punish savers nor job creating small businesses vs. the current system that's killing us all slowly.

[shark66]

My issue with that is that societies that do have, in your words, 'handouts', are better off

I'm not so sure about that...

What I am certain about is that for a proper comparison one needs to look a lot deeper...and see the less-than-pretty-and-rarely-exposed-other-side-of-the-coin...

Having lived and worked in a couple of these societies I'd say that they are in a somewhat different type of peril when compared to U.S. but that their long-term prognosis is likely as bad as the American one...

Sole exception to this state of affairs *might* be Switzerland along with a couple of smaller countries that really don't change the global picture by any significant margin...the rest of the "civilized" world is doomed for a variety of reasons...

I could elaborate further but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

The bottom line is, Dr. Paul will never win the Republican nomination, and we'll get four more years of Obama.

Good luck to us all.

[IamOld]

Shark at this rate I don't know if Obama will win either - he has alienated his base very very much - if he wins, it's because the other person is way "scary." In Germany or France, I wouldn't be looking at BK, simply because a) I'd make enough, and b) and yes like an alcoholic I need protection from myself (well needed) - personal credit is fortunately not very popular and available. (except mortgages and cars)

[sguerra923]

I'm not so sure about that...

What I am certain about is that for a proper comparison one needs to look a lot deeper...and see the less-than-pretty-and-rarely-exposed-other-side-of-the-coin...

Having lived and worked in a couple of these societies I'd say that they are in a somewhat different type of peril when compared to U.S. but that their long-term prognosis is likely as bad as the American one...

Sole exception to this state of affairs *might* be Switzerland along with a couple of smaller countries that really don't change the global picture by any significant margin...the rest of the "civilized" world is doomed for a variety of reasons...

I could elaborate further but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

The bottom line is, Dr. Paul will never win the Republican nomination, and we'll get four more years of Obama.

Good luck to us all.

I'm just trying to figure out why people are saying that Ron Paul will not win the nomination.. Shark and everyone else why do you say he won't win? Is it due to not hearing Dr. Paul on the main stream media news? Or is it the so called "status quo" forces doing everything in their power to lessen his chances? I want to gather as much respones why because it seems like people say that he doesn't have a chance but they don't back it up with facts. Thanks!

[banca rotta]

I'm just trying to figure out why people are saying that Ron Paul will not win the nomination.. Shark and everyone else why do you say he won't win? Is it due to not hearing Dr. Paul on the main stream media news? Or is it the so called "status quo" forces doing everything in their power to lessen his chances? I want to gather as much respones why because it seems like people say that he doesn't have a chance but they don't back it up with facts. Thanks!

My opinion on this is one of the human flaws is most people (especially Americans) typically wait for a crisis to arrive whether it being personal, career related or political.

Years ago I too let myself go with the credit thing, filed for bk and after discharge I was in the rebuilding process.

I sat down one day and realized that by the time I make it to retirement age I will not have enough money to live on and this is all best case assuming I still have a job and SS is still around. This made me nervous.

Then with the 2008 subprime collapse we spent trillions to make the rich whole again and that made our un employment situation much worse and entitlement benefits more dire.

Now to answer your question the fact that I now see the system in a different way I noticed that most friends, family members, co workers, etc. are totally oblivious to this.

I would say 8 out of 10 people I know personally have no clue. I happen to be using that as my own polling system and concluded it's going to get rough for these same people. They have no interest in hearing everything on Dr. Paul has to say. They don't understand the monetary system is stacked against the middle class and favors the uber rich.

Once the entitlement storm comes then they will be concerned.

[Meatstick]

Mis-post.

[Meatstick]

I'm just trying to figure out why people are saying that Ron Paul will not win the nomination.. Shark and everyone else why do you say he won't win? Is it due to not hearing Dr. Paul on the main stream media news? Or is it the so called "status quo" forces doing everything in their power to lessen his chances? I want to gather as much respones why because it seems like people say that he doesn't have a chance but they don't back it up with facts. Thanks!

As I stated before the majority of voters cast their votes right down the party line. Voting is also heavily influenced by the media, for example they were all over Barry's you know what and succeeded in helping a community organizer get elected to POTUS.

With that said, Paul as a Republican doesn't stand a chance as I truly believe the Republican party and the national media want Mitt Romney as the sacrificial lamb as Barry the Messiah will be re-elected.

I like Ron Paul alot and so do many other people but when it comes time to actually vote too many people are blinded by party loyalty, the media and the syndrome of "well I am not voting for Ron Paul because he won't win".

Wouldn't it be nice if someone from outside the Dem/Rep parties came in and won the 2012 election. They certainly can do no worse then who is in their now. Problem is people will vote for Barry so they can say "I told you he was going to win and he did, I voted for him and you wasted your vote on so and so."


We have got to break the mold. As it stands right now ron Paul gets my vote if I have to cast it as a write-in.

[sguerra923]

My opinion on this is one of the human flaws is most people (especially Americans) typically wait for a crisis to arrive whether it being personal, career related or political.

Years ago I too let myself go with the credit thing, filed for bk and after discharge I was in the rebuilding process.

I sat down one day and realized that by the time I make it to retirement age I will not have enough money to live on and this is all best case assuming I still have a job and SS is still around. This made me nervous.

Then with the 2008 subprime collapse we spent trillions to make the rich whole again and that made our un employment situation much worse and entitlement benefits more dire.

Now to answer your question the fact that I now see the system in a different way I noticed that most friends, family members, co workers, etc. are totally oblivious to this.

I would say 8 out of 10 people I know personally have no clue. I happen to be using that as my own polling system and concluded it's going to get rough for these same people. They have no interest in hearing everything on Dr. Paul has to say. They don't understand the monetary system is stacked against the middle class and favors the uber rich.

Once the entitlement storm comes then they will be concerned.

Well said banca rotta! I agree to everything you said and I WAS in the same boat in regards to family and friends. About a year ago, my family thought I was just being paranoid even though I would explain things in a normal tone but after they sat down and really looked around they are starting to wake up from the deep sleep. I believe it's hard for people to realize what's going on because they feel that government will take care of them and that this is just a economic trend that will pass.

Let's stay positive and keep passing the message to everyone that wants to make difference for future generations. Dr. Paul message is simple.. he is focused in waking up the sleeping minds of today's society so they're able to make educated decisions rather than what they hear or see on the news.. Yes winning the presidency is a plus however I believe Dr. Paul message is growing and that in turn will provide all the backing he needs to continue his push for liberty and freedom for all.

If we do not elect someone who bases his entire platform on Liberty and restore the liberties and responsibilities that made America great, we will no longer have a country worth fighting for. All we will have left is a skeleton picked clean by the vultures by Wall Street and the multi-national corporations, and a people kept “in line” by a police state that’s already knocking on our doors. Wake up America. We don’t need to police the world and waste money on imperial conquest or empire maintenance, and that’s what a vote for any other candidate guarantees. Now is the time…

[banca rotta]

As I stated before the majority of voters cast their votes right down the party line. Voting is also heavily influenced by the media, for example they were all over Barry's you know what and succeeded in helping a community organizer get elected to POTUS.

And that's why I blame a lot of these problems on the sheep like mentality of Americans that actually listen to the media as if the media is credible.

I gave my long recent life story above to prove a point that I too believed the media until after my bk discharge I then did a lot of homework because I have a huge appetite for the truth and found a lot of answers.

I looked for the truth and still look for it and it's sad what I keep finding.

Most people actually turn on the tube and wait for the media to tell them what to do and because of that they are or will be screwed. Makes no difference if it's CNN or Fox.

Just look at all of my posts for over a year constantly discussing the debt crisis in this country.

Only this week the media keeps discussing it as if it's a new problem and the believers are losing their 401k savings as well as their bank savings to inflation.

(As for the debt issue they will most likely raise it and it will be much more dangerous the next time they debate it.)

[banca rotta]

Well said banca rotta! I agree to everything you said and I WAS in the same boat in regards to family and friends. About a year ago, my family thought I was just being paranoid even though I would explain things in a normal tone but after they sat down and really looked around they are starting to wake up from the deep sleep. I believe it's hard for people to realize what's going on because they feel that government will take care of them and that this is just a economic trend that will pass.

…

I hear ya! I talk to people and they all repeat "oh social security won't be there when I get old" as if it's a small issue. For crying out loud if these people really feel this way why on earth aren't they educating themselves???????

Speaking of education I watched videos like this and read Rich Dad Poor Dad and felt he's a doom and gloomer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOKn7tiUMyc

This was made in late 2007.

(Not trying to push gold & silver just showing anyone that wants to learn.)

[helpmeout]

I'm just trying to figure out why people are saying that Ron Paul will not win the nomination.. Shark and everyone else why do you say he won't win? Is it due to not hearing Dr. Paul on the main stream media news? Or is it the so called "status quo" forces doing everything in their power to lessen his chances? I want to gather as much respones why because it seems like people say that he doesn't have a chance but they don't back it up with facts. Thanks!

Because he is too extreme. And his policies would do far more damage. Low taxes? Get real, we need to raise taxes not lower them. And the different tax rates for the different income levels IS fair. Get rid of social security? Not happening. And if that did manage to get by, well, what happens to the elderly? The helpless? I have no problem with spending cuts (especially with foreign aid, we need to take care of our own first) as long as there are tax increases, especially in eliminating the loopholes that allow major corporations to pay no tax. The poor and middle class should not be the only ones asked to bear the pain of dealing with the debt.

And that is something that the tea baggers just don't get. But they will when we go into default and they get voted out as a result.

[banca rotta]

Because he is too extreme. And his policies would do far more damage. Low taxes? Get real, we need to raise taxes not lower them. And the different tax rates for the different income levels IS fair. Get rid of social security? Not happening. And if that did manage to get by, well, what happens to the elderly? The helpless? I have no problem with spending cuts (especially with foreign aid, we need to take care of our own first) as long as there are tax increases, especially in eliminating the loopholes that allow major corporations to pay no tax. The poor and middle class should not be the only ones asked to bear the pain of dealing with the debt.

And that is something that the tea baggers just don't get. But they will when we go into default and they get voted out as a result.

I happen to agree with a lot of what you are saying regarding the tax loopholes and ridiculous foreign aid and taking care of ourselves first.

Exactly why didn't Obama and the democratic controlled congress get this done before the "tea baggers" took control of congress???

It just sounds to me like you are proving Meatstick correct! As I stated before the majority of voters cast their votes right down the party line.

Why else would you support someone that expanded Bush's wars and all the money spent on them?