Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do: (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.

Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

IRS after me with CP504 on taxes(1998) paid in chapter 13 after paid and discharged.

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • IRS after me with CP504 on taxes(1998) paid in chapter 13 after paid and discharged.

    I actually had to file twice. Once in 2008 and 2012. Taxes for 1998 and 1999 were paid through chapter 13 and i got my discharge in August 2017. Last week I received a CP504 for an amount just over $120 plus interest for tax year 1998.My attorney is no help. These taxes and interest are paid and discharged.What gives?

  • #2
    I can't even begin to tell you how many clients I work with receive a CP504 Intent to Levy notice in which the IRS is just simply wrong. Sometimes the notice will be "nice" and provide you a breakdown of the original balance they claim is owed, the payments they show as received, and the penalty and interest calculation they used to arrive at a final balance. Without knowing your specific situation besides the information that you provided and not being able to examine the notice myself, I assume the IRS is saying that you owe them additional "tax" in excess of what was paid to them through your bankruptcy plan.

    Do a quick check to see if the entire amount of tax was paid to them or if any amounts were discharged. Also, get a Tax Transcript (online, for free) which should show you what the IRS has recorded against your tax account in terms of payments which is faster than calling and waiting on hold. It is possible that a payment made through bankruptcy was not credited properly. Regardless, I would suggest that you call the IRS and ask them to put a collection hold on your account while you research this. I believe they will give you 3 weeks or so. You might be able to have them grant you more. Be sure to record the name and ID of the IRS agent you spoke with.

    Once you are able to do the research and find out that the tax liability was fully satisfied (either through payment in full or reduced by discharge), send a letter certified/return receipt with your detailed explanation and backup documentation that you are not subject to additional tax, penalties/interest/etc. because yadda yadda...


    • #3
      Originally posted by hughthehand View Post
      I actually had to file twice. Once in 2008 and 2012. Taxes for 1998 and 1999 were paid through chapter 13 and i got my discharge in August 2017. Last week I received a CP504 for an amount just over $120 plus interest for tax year 1998.My attorney is no help. These taxes and interest are paid and discharged.What gives?
      Yes, they should have been discharged. You may want to call the insolvency unit and ask them to do some research!
      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


      • #4
        Had my accountant write them a letter explaining everything.IRS responded with pound sand, pay us. I’m writing my bankruptcy judge,I guess.


        • #5
          I did find this


          • #6
            The tax was from 1998? Exactly what type of tax was owed - income, 940/941 or 6672 penalty?

            Your attny is of no help as the tax bill (right or wrong) is only $120.00. I bill at over $300/hour - not justified to argue over it even if a violation had occurred. . . and the case you mention above is proof of this:

            Kovacs filed for bankruptcy in July 2001 and received a discharge of her debts in October 2001. Later that year, the IRS notified her that it had applied part of her 2000 tax refund against her outstanding tax debts from tax years 1990 to 1995. Over the following year, Kovacs's attorneys and the IRS went back and forth about the status of those debts, with the IRS claiming that Kovacs still owed over $150,000 and Kovacs denying the obligation. Finally, in August 2003 IRS Appeals Officer Teresa Mulcahy sent Kovacs a letter, in which Mulcahy confirmed that Kovacs's liabilities for the tax years in question had been discharged through her bankruptcy proceeding. Mulcahy also informed Kovacs that the 2000 refund would now be applied against her non-discharged 1999 tax debt.

            Apparently the right hand at the IRS did not know what the left hand was doing. Despite Mulcahy's representations, in September 2003 the IRS sent Kovacs two letters labeled “Statement of Adjustment to Your Account.” Each of these letters erroneously stated that Kovacs still owed over $13,000 for debts from tax years 1990–1995; in fact, Mulcahy correctly had reported that those debts were discharged. Kovacs and her attorneys apparently spotted the mistake easily. One of Kovacs's attorneys testified later: “It was a bit of a cleanup; I wasn't alarmed by it in any great fashion.” In response to the question “although you may have found [the correspondence] confusing, it [the IRS] wasn't trying to collect taxes for the [tax years in question]?” the lawyer responded, “I don't believe it was, no.” After reviewing the two September letters, Kovacs's attorneys did not even bother to contact the IRS insolvency unit to express concern. They did, however, write a brief note clarifying the status of the discharged debt in later correspondence about Kovacs's non-discharged 1999 tax debt.

            About 18 months later, in January 2005, Kovacs filed an administrative claim against the IRS, as required by 26 U.S.C. § 7430(b)(1) as a predicate to a lawsuit. When the IRS did not respond to her administrative claim, Kovacs filed an adversary complaint in bankruptcy court in August 2005 (Kovacs I ). Her petition initially sought just under $12,000 in pre-litigation damages; she later reduced that demand to $8,622, and she also sought over $106,000 in litigation costs. At trial, the IRS admitted its fault but argued that the two-year statute of limitations barred the action. Kovacs conceded that the only losses she could claim were attorneys' fees and costs. She prevailed, but her victory was disappointing. She recovered only a small part of the nearly $115,000 in total damages she sought. The court cut the amounts back to $6,450 in pre-litigation damages and $18,550 in litigation costs because Kovacs had failed to mitigate damages and protracted the litigation.

            On appeal, the district court remanded for reconsideration of the government's statute-of-limitations defense (Kovacs II ). Taking another look at the case, the bankruptcy court found for the government, because Kovacs had filed more than two years after the IRS's last collection action (Kovacs III ). The district court affirmed (Kovacs IV ), and Kovacs appealed. We affirmed in part, but reversed with respect to the two letters that the IRS sent in September 2003, less than two years prior to Kovacs's lawsuit (Kovacs V, 614 F.3d 666). We remanded to the bankruptcy court for determination of the damages and litigation costs attributable to those two letters.

            On remand again, the bankruptcy court determined that Kovacs was entitled to $3,750 for the two letters (Kovacs VI ). The court recounted the testimony of Kovacs's lawyers reflecting their lack of concern about the two letters and concluded that “whatever damages were incurred as a result of the two September 2003 letters were minimal.” It generously estimated that “reasonable legal services performed by Kovacs' [s] attorneys in relation to the two September 2003 letters consumed approximately 25 hours.” Applying the statutory fee rate, the court found Kovacs entitled to $3,750 (that is, 25 hours at $150 per hour). Neither party takes issue with the court's calculation of the time spent responding to the two letters.

            Even then, the case was not over. Kovacs appealed again to the district court (Kovacs VII ), which sent the case back once more to the bankruptcy court to determine whether, in light of Kovacs V, Kovacs was still the prevailing party and the government's position was still not substantially justified, so that Kovacs could recover under the statute. That court found in Kovacs's favor (Kovacs VIII ); the district court upheld the $3,750 award and declared that the award was premised on litigation costs, not actual damages (Kovacs IX ); and Kovacs has now returned to this court for Round 10.
            In the end, the lower court decision was affirmed. So for demanding over $150k from the Debtor, the Debtor recovered less than $4k in damages - granted the reason had to do with the Debtor's failure to bring a timely action - but you should get the picture.

            So, again, what type of tax is involved?



            • #7
              Income tax. It was all paid through chapters 13 filed in 2008 and 2012. All debts were certified paid by the trustee when I received discharge in Aug. 2017. The IRS seems to have simply restarted the clock on some kind of portion of this debt that should have paid. Unfortunately, My attorney has closed shop and is no help. I had my accountant write to the IRS to no avail.


              • #8
                Originally posted by hughthehand View Post
                Income tax. It was all paid through chapters 13 filed in 2008 and 2012..
                A 1998 income tax should have been a general unsecured claim like a credit card UNLESS you failed to either file the return or filed it less than 2 years before that 2008 case was filed OR the IRS filed a lien for that tax year.

                When did you file the 1998 tax return?

                If it was filed in April or October of 1999 did the IRS do some sort of audit and when?



                Unconfigured Ad Widget