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341 Meeting Last Wednesday 3/23

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  • 341 Meeting Last Wednesday 3/23

    Hello everyone, we had our 341 meeting on Wednesday 3/23 & today I noticed the trustee wrote on 3/24 the following message on Pacer: "Trustee's Initial Report & 341 Meeting Held and Concluded." I realize it's a bit vague but I am wondering if I should start feeling better about where we stand. I don't know if I should expect more of a description by 14 days, 30 days or 60 days out. We have a house that may be at risk of sale (if the trustee feels that Zillow is more accurate than our independent appraisal). We are current on the mortgage and I would assume that he would've indicated his intention to try to sell our house by now? Maybe? Not sure...Anyway, some additional info: We filed on 2/22, 341 on 3/23-CA Exemptions should have covered the small amount of equity in the house & our bank accounts.

  • #2
    It is too soon to see anything. But, you are waiting to see the trustee report "determination of no assets". Once that is filed, you know the trustee isn't interested in selling the house.


    • #3
      Well, it's been one month exactly since my 341 meeting & nothing posted on Pacer since the last note from the trustee: "Trustee's Initial Report & 341 Meeting Held and Concluded." I am beginning to breathe a little bit easier now...I'm not sure if the trustee would still attempt to sell our house at this late date. He must have agreed with our independent appraisal.

      I'll let you know if anythings changes but I guess no news is good news.


      • #4
        So my attorney called me today to let me know the trustee feels that the house is worth more than the independent appraisal (submitted with our initial Chap 7 filing). It sounds as though the local trustees use a known realtor (one of the local trustee's wife's) for real estate value estimates.

        Our attorney is recommending we change our CA exemptions from 703 to 704 (a much larger exemption for real estate) in order to keep our house. This would require my tax refund to be turned over to the trustee. It sounds as though it is not going to be considered a "no asset" case anymore.

        My attorney said that if I wanted this case to be solved sooner vs. later that I just turn over our tax refund vs. have the house on the market potentially for a few more months. This would keep the case open & we would be unsure whether we would have to move if the house is sold above what we feel it is worth.

        Since we want to stay in our home I feel that we will be changing our exemption to cover the house completely and close out the case sooner. Even if the cost of the appraisal ends up being "wasted" money.

        The only question I have at this point is how much weight should a BK court place on an independent appraisal vs. a realtor estimate? I am more confident that the appraisal is accurate vs. what is listed on some of the online real estate sites (Zillow, Trulia, Redfin) or a realtor.

        Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated....


        • #5
          If you fight over the value, you and your trustee would each have to bring in experts to support your valuation. This can be expensive because you have to pay the expert and your attorney. How big is your tax refund? Fighting could cost more, even if you win.
          LadyInTheRed is in the black!
          Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
          $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


          • #6
            We already paid for ($350) and submitted an independent appraisal initially. Our attorney said the trustee saw the appraisal but they are (apparently) placing more weight on websites like Zillow & the opinion of the wife of one of the other trustees. My attorney said that we could just give up the refund (which is around $4000) and amend our filing to increase our homestead exemption. I am leaning towards that but feel a little frustrated that a trustee would listen more to a realtor (which has not even been to our house) than go with our appraisal.

            I know we are filing a no-asset case & changing it would give the trustee about $2000 vs. just $60 but I wish there was a way to have the court at least take into account the appraisal. Our attorney said that we could list the house & see what happens but I would rather close this case sooner rather than go through the process of having the house listed for months (potentially) just to prove that the house is not worth as much as the trustee thinks (or risk losing our home).


            • #7
              When you have to litigate over value and you present an appraisal as evidence, the appraiser usually has to testify to support his/her appraisal. You can run up $2,000 in witness and attorney fees very quickly. If I were you, I'd amend the petition to use the other set of exemptions and give up the tax refund.

              Don't focus so much on the $2350. Focus on how much debt is being discharged.
              LadyInTheRed is in the black!
              Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
              $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


              • #8
                Yes, I am beginning to feel like that is the right approach Lady. I would still be discharging around $130k in CC debt for about $4k in a tax refund & $2k in attorney fees. Plus I'm tired of the stress & really just need to focus on finding a job asap. Thanks for your insight and help...this board has helped a lot thru this whole process!


                • #9
                  So today I read on Pacer the following:

                  Trustee's Request to Set Claims Bar Date. filed by (trustees name) on behalf of (trustees name). (Entered: 05/09/2016)

                  Notice of Need to File Proof of Claim Due to Recovery of Assets. Notice Requested on: 5/9/2016. Proof of Claims due by 8/8/2016, (related documents 12 Trustee's Request to Set Claims Bar Date) (Entered: 05/09/2016)

                  Does the above statement now mean that my case won't be discharged until 8/8/2016? The original date was 5/23/2016.

                  The "recovery of assets" is just going to be our tax refund since we are amending our exemptions to protect our house in full from a trustee sale. But what I am worried about now is starting the clock again on the 14 days for the means test challenge, then the 30 days for the trustee objection and 60 days for creditor objections...

                  Should I be worried about this or is this case still schedule to discharge on 5/23/2016 & close on 8/8/2016? If so, would this extension also apply for the stay too?

                  Any help would be appreciated.


                  • #10
                    None of this will restart any previously ticking clocks or delay your discharge. But, I doubt your case will close on 8\8 which is the deadline for creditors to file proof of claim. The trustee needs time to collect the asset and distribute funds to creditors. Then the checks to creditors need to clear and the trustee needs to do a final report. Don't worry so much about the close date. It is the discharge date that is important.
                    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


                    • #11
                      So I checked Pacer tonight (5/24) and noticed the "Order of Discharge". Even though we had to turn over our 2015 tax refund ($4100) & paid a little bit over $2000 to our attorney I still feel good about the whole process. I lost my job in September 2015 & couldn't afford to make payments on our credit card & medical debt. We protected the equity in our house & now will focus on rebuilding our savings without the large debt burden. This board helped through the whole process and I wanted to write a big "Thank You" to everyone who chipped in...


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