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Has anyone had your case confirmed at the 341 meeting?

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    Has anyone had your case confirmed at the 341 meeting?

    My 341 was yesterday and the Trustee confirmed my case immediately after just a few questions and there will be no confirmation hearing. I'm curious to know if many debtors have had the same experience or does this rarely happen. I'm also curious as to why my case was confirmed so quickly. Any thoughts?

    #2
    In some jurisdictions, Chapter 13s are confirmed right after the 341 Meeting (on the same day). A Chapter 13 Trustee could, at the 341 Meeting, have no questions and no objections to confirmation and have that case confirmed that same afternoon (after the 341 Meeting).

    This is not how it works in Florida. In Florida, we purposefully have a "preliminary" Chapter 13 Confirmation hearing about 30 days after the 341 Meeting in order to comply with the bankruptcy code. However, we do not have the final confirmation hearing until about 90 days after the 341 Meeting. In Florida, we do this so that the claims bar date has passed and the judge can deal with any objections to the claims, and perform any other housekeeping, such as cramdowns and lien strips, at confirmation. I personally prefer the Florida method.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by justbroke View Post
      In some jurisdictions, Chapter 13s are confirmed right after the 341 Meeting (on the same day). A Chapter 13 Trustee could, at the 341 Meeting, have no questions and no objections to confirmation and have that case confirmed that same afternoon (after the 341 Meeting).

      This is not how it works in Florida. In Florida, we purposefully have a "preliminary" Chapter 13 Confirmation hearing about 30 days after the 341 Meeting in order to comply with the bankruptcy code. However, we do not have the final confirmation hearing until about 90 days after the 341 Meeting. In Florida, we do this so that the claims bar date has passed and the judge can deal with any objections to the claims, and perform any other housekeeping, such as cramdowns and lien strips, at confirmation. I personally prefer the Florida method.

      Well I'm in SC but the trustee confirmed immediately after the questions. Curious!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Christine88 View Post
        Well I'm in SC but the trustee confirmed immediately after the questions. Curious!
        It is not technically "confirmed" at the 341 meeting. It is "recommended" for confirmation. The actual confirmation order needs to be signed by the judge. I would say that your Trustee indicated that the case is "confirmed" for expediency where it is "technically" not confirmed until the Judge signs an order confirming the plan. While the signature of the judge is a rubber stamp of the Trustee's lack of objection to the plan, the Trustee must submit the order to the judge for signature.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by justbroke View Post
          It is not technically "confirmed" at the 341 meeting. It is "recommended" for confirmation. The actual confirmation order needs to be signed by the judge. I would say that your Trustee indicated that the case is "confirmed" for expediency where it is "technically" not confirmed until the Judge signs an order confirming the plan. While the signature of the judge is a rubber stamp of the Trustee's lack of objection to the plan, the Trustee must submit the order to the judge for signature.

          There was actually a judge at the meeting and I think she confirmed it.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Christine88 View Post
            There was actually a judge at the meeting and I think she confirmed it.
            There is no judge at a 341 Meeting. In fact, a 341 Meeting of Creditor is prohibited from being held in any courtroom, or in front of any judge. The person who recommended your case for confirmation was probably the Trustee's assistant, and the person agreeing to confirm, could have been the Trustee him/herself.
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by justbroke View Post
              There is no judge at a 341 Meeting. In fact, a 341 Meeting of Creditor is prohibited from being held in any courtroom, or in front of any judge. The person who recommended your case for confirmation was probably the Trustee's assistant, and the person agreeing to confirm, could have been the Trustee him/herself.
              No you are wrong. The bankruptcy documents and the docket listed her as Judge Hxxxx E. Bxxxxx.
              Last edited by AngelinaCat; 07-10-2013, 06:23 PM. Reason: removed the proper name

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Christine88 View Post
                No you are wrong. The bankruptcy documents and the docket listed her as Judge Helen E. Burris.
                Then you were not at a 341 Meeting. The code is very clear on this. In some jurisdictions, they will hold the confirmation hearing the same day as the 341 Meeting of Creditors, but the 341 Meeting is separate and a judge may not attend or preside over any meeting. If you went into a different room for the confirmation itself, then that is not the 341 Meeting. This would be the first ever, I heard that a Judge attended the 341 Meeting itself.

                11 USC 341 (c) The court may not preside at, and may not attend, any meeting under this section including any final meeting of creditors.
                Emphasis added.

                The docket entry (and document itself) is separate since a judge must sign the Order confirming the case. Since a judge may neither attend nor preside at a 341 Meeting, the person that signed the Order Confirming Chapter 13 Plan of Reorganization, could not have attended the 341 Meeting. I believe you are confusing your Chapter 13 Panel Trustee, who may say that the case will be confirmed (or "recommended) for confirmation, with the judge that actually signs the order.

                You can check the name of your Chapter 13 Trustee to see if their name is the same as the Judge's name. They absolutely should be different, and the judge would not have attended your 341 Meeting itself.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                  Then you were not at a 341 Meeting. The code is very clear on this. In some jurisdictions, they will hold the confirmation hearing the same day as the 341 Meeting of Creditors, but the 341 Meeting is separate and a judge may not attend or preside over any meeting. If you went into a different room for the confirmation itself, then that is not the 341 Meeting. This would be the first ever, I heard that a Judge attended the 341 Meeting itself.

                  Emphasis added.

                  The docket entry (and document itself) is separate since a judge must sign the Order confirming the case. Since a judge may neither attend nor preside at a 341 Meeting, the person that signed the Order Confirming Chapter 13 Plan of Reorganization, could not have attended the 341 Meeting. I believe you are confusing your Chapter 13 Panel Trustee, who may say that the case will be confirmed (or "recommended) for confirmation, with the judge that actually signs the order.

                  You can check the name of your Chapter 13 Trustee to see if their name is the same as the Judge's name. They absolutely should be different, and the judge would not have attended your 341 Meeting itself.
                  I just checked my bankruptcy schedule papers and it clearly lists the name of the trustee and the judge. The trustee is a man and the judge is female and both were at the 341 meeting. It was not held in a court room. It was held in a meeting room. When I read the docket it also listed the same trustee and the same judge. The statute you provided prohibits the court but says nothing about a judge. Of course I'm not an attorney so I don't really know what the deal was. I do know for an absolute fact that it was a 341 meeting with a trustee who introduced himself as such. The only thing important for me is that the trustee said my case was confirmed and there would be no confirmation hearing. If a judge just needs to sign it then its in the bag. Just out of curiosity are you a legal professional?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I am not an attorney. In the paragraph about the "341" Meeting says "court" that means the Judge. The reason that they do not allow the Judge to attend the 341 Meeting is to prevent any bias in case there are hearings regarding issues in the case. If the Judge attended your 341 Meeting, that is a problem and someone should say something about it. That was my intent to let you know that the judge is not allowed to attend a 341 Meeting.

                    Yes, the only thing important for your specific case, is that it was confirmed. I was addressing an issue of a "judge" attending a 341 Meeting and that is a no-no. In some jurisdictions, the judge is in another room, which allows that specific jurisdiction to walk across the hall, to the other room, and have the judge issue an order confirming the plan.

                    I will tell you the reason why I was initially confused by what you wrote. You wrote that the "trustee" confirmed your plan. The Trustee cannot confirm your plan... they can only agree to confirm the plan. The judge is the one that confirms a Chapter 13 Plan by signing an Order confirm the plan. In most cases, the Trustee writes the Order. In all cases, it is the judge that confirms the confirmation by signing the order.
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                      I am not an attorney. In the paragraph about the "341" Meeting says "court" that means the Judge. The reason that they do not allow the Judge to attend the 341 Meeting is to prevent any bias in case there are hearings regarding issues in the case. If the Judge attended your 341 Meeting, that is a problem and someone should say something about it. That was my intent to let you know that the judge is not allowed to attend a 341 Meeting.

                      Yes, the only thing important for your specific case, is that it was confirmed. I was addressing an issue of a "judge" attending a 341 Meeting and that is a no-no. In some jurisdictions, the judge is in another room, which allows that specific jurisdiction to walk across the hall, to the other room, and have the judge issue an order confirming the plan.

                      I will tell you the reason why I was initially confused by what you wrote. You wrote that the "trustee" confirmed your plan. The Trustee cannot confirm your plan... they can only agree to confirm the plan. The judge is the one that confirms a Chapter 13 Plan by signing an Order confirm the plan. In most cases, the Trustee writes the Order. In all cases, it is the judge that confirms the confirmation by signing the order.
                      Well I guess most likely the judge listed was perhaps the judge over the bankruptcy court. There was a lady sitting beside the trustee and I assumed she was the judge listed on the documents but I guess she was a paralegal? I don't know.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi Christine88. We are not allowed to give proper names on the public side of the forum. Therefore, I 'xxxed' out the rest of the letters, but left the initials, in case someone else in South Carolina is interested.

                        You are welcome to send the proper name to someone else in a PM, such as sending an attorney recommendation to another poster.
                        "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

                        "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Christine88 View Post
                          Well I guess most likely the judge listed was perhaps the judge over the bankruptcy court. There was a lady sitting beside the trustee and I assumed she was the judge listed on the documents but I guess she was a paralegal? I don't know.
                          If there was someone sitting next to the Trustee, it was either one of the Trustee's assistants, or could be someone from the Office of the United States Trustee (UST). Having a UST representative at a Chapter 13 is usually unlikely, so it was probably the Trustee's assistant. My Chapter 13 341 Meeting was not held by the Trustee herself. It was held by a Trustee assistant and another assistant.
                          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                          Comment

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