OK, It Appears That An AP Was Not Filed

[booboo]

But will know after 6:00PM today...tick, tick, tick......Now that the 60days has lapsed, is it possible that they can still file an AP against my estate??

BooBoo

[2manybills]

But will know after 6:00PM today...tick, tick, tick......Now that the 60days has lapsed, is it possible that they can still file an AP against my estate??

BooBoo

No. Not unless they showed the court good cause. But I think they would have had to request an extension before the 60 days.

[justbroke]

2Many is on the money.

Now, a party in interest (plaintiff) can motion for the deadline to be extended (as to their specific complaint), and if proper cause is shown, the plaintiff can file their complaint. However, the complaint must be filed before any deadline set.

Example, say that day 60 was yesterday 10/26/2009. If the plaintiff filed anytime before 10/26/2009 a Complaint, they'd be okay. Also, if the plaintiff filed a motion to extend the deadline before 10/26/2009, and that motion isn't even heard until, let's say, 11/15/2009... so long as the Judge extends the timeline, the plaintiff only needs to meet the new deadline. All other creditors would not be allowed to file a complaint. Only the plaintiff in the motion to extend, is granted the additional time. Of course, they must have reasonable cause. An example of which may be time to perform a Rule 2004 examination.

[Kingxray]

2Many is on the money.

Now, a party in interest (plaintiff) can motion for the deadline to be extended (as to their specific complaint), and if proper cause is shown, the plaintiff can file their complaint. However, the complaint must be filed before any deadline set.

Example, say that day 60 was yesterday 10/26/2009. If the plaintiff filed anytime before 10/26/2009 a Complaint, they'd be okay. Also, if the plaintiff filed a motion to extend the deadline before 10/26/2009, and that motion isn't even heard until, let's say, 11/15/2009... so long as the Judge extends the timeline, the plaintiff only needs to meet the new deadline. All other creditors would not be allowed to file a complaint. Only the plaintiff in the motion to extend, is granted the additional time. Of course, they must have reasonable cause. An example of which may be time to perform a Rule 2004 examination.

What is a 2004 examination? Does the UST order that? What does it examine, assets? We're passed the 60 days but under a motion to dismiss at the moment. Thx.

[justbroke]

What is a 2004 examination? Does the UST order that? What does it examine, assets? We're passed the 60 days but under a motion to dismiss at the moment. Thx.

Think of the Rule 2004 Examination as a deposition. It's virtually a more in debt 341 Meeting, and is usually requested by a creditor to examine the debtor more closely (the schedules, petition, other things related to the bankruptcy). They can review assets, yes... as well as what you put on your schedules.

I forgot, why are you being dismissed? 707(b)(3) or 707(b)(1)/(b)(2) or both?

[music12]

justbroke, i am glad i know what you are thinking rather than what you are writing:

you said "It's virtually a more in debt 341" when you meant "It's virtually more in depth 341". funny how you think one thing and your fingers write another. happens to me all the time...

[justbroke]

you said "It's virtually a more in debt 341" when you meant "It's virtually more in depth 341". funny how you think one thing and your fingers write another. happens to me all the time...

Yeah, I just noticed that. Everytime I type "bank" now... I type "bankruptcy" instead... LOL! You can obviously see where my mind is these days. Just had to pay almost $1K to have a section of my sewer line dug up and replaced. That just ate up a chunk of my rainy day fund.

[music12]

are you saying that it's possible to save for a rainy day even during a ch13?? i thought they take every last cent away, no?

[justbroke]

are you saying that it's possible to save for a rainy day even during a ch13?? i thought they take every last cent away, no?

Well, there's one reason why many people should not file Chapter 13 pro se. That is the budget. If you can't get a really good budget, then you'll never be able to save. This is why filing a Chapter 13 pro se is usually discouraged. I worked on my Plan for about 160 hours to take every variation and consideration into making sure I contributed as little as necessary in my disposable monthly income. My DMI actually ended up being negative.

However, had I not taken the expense deductions that I was allowed to, then my DMI would have been very positive and I wouldn't be able to save. For example, on my Form B22C (Means Test), I have $150 for the "extra" telecommunication expense on line 37. My telecom expense is a little higher, but I took that expense deduction. I also use LIne 42 energy expense to include an additional $225 a month for energy costs far above the "IRS" Standard (included in the non-mortgage/non-rent expense).

That is very important, because had I not taken those deductions (and others), I would be hurting. The key to Chapter 13 is the Plan (budget)... by no stretch of the imagination. The only way you can stay in Plan is that your Plan actually covers all your expenses... and even the unexpected expense. I can actually get through this $1K hiccup without any issues. I wish it didn't happen, but I think the car needs brakes now. All of this must be factored and anyone going into a Chapter 13 needs to understand that budgeting and saving are important to succeed.

[ForumReader]

Think of the Rule 2004 Examination as a deposition. It's virtually a more in debt 341 Meeting, and is usually requested by a creditor to examine the debtor more closely (the schedules, petition, other things related to the bankruptcy). They can review assets, yes... as well as what you put on your schedules.

I forgot, why are you being dismissed? 707(b)(3) or 707(b)(1)/(b)(2) or both?

Can a creditor request a 2004 examination even if the 60 days has been passed and the case not formally closed yet? I apologize if an answer was given to this kind of question somewhere on this forum.

[justbroke]

Can a creditor request a 2004 examination even if the 60 days has been passed and the case not formally closed yet? I apologize if an answer was given to this kind of question somewhere on this forum.

No. The Rule 2004 Exam needs to requested prior to the 60 days. Usually, the creditor (if it's the creditor asking for the exam) will also file a motion to extend the deadline to determine dischargeability as well so that they can still examine the debtor and file a complaint if necessary. At least that's my read on it.

[music12]

gosh, am i glad i qualified for a ch7.

[booboo]

My 60 days were up at 6:00PM Monday, nothing shows on pacer except: ABUSENO. If someone has asked for an extension and a 2004 exam, how soon would I have knowledge of it?

I understand PACER updates every 12 hours, but would there be any delay in it posting this objection? I assume that this request and objection has to be filed through the courts and not my attorney or the US Trustee, am I correct.

BooBoo

[2manybills]

My 60 days were up at 6:00PM Monday, nothing shows on pacer except: ABUSENO. If someone has asked for an extension and a 2004 exam, how soon would I have knowledge of it?

I understand PACER updates every 12 hours, but would there be any delay in it posting this objection? I assume that this request and objection has to be filed through the courts and not my attorney or the US Trustee, am I correct.

BooBoo

The request for extension and/or objection would have shown up on Pacer. I am not sure how often they update the Pacer in your district. Every district is different. In So. Cal. documents show up within an hour or so.

[justbroke]

My 60 days were up at 6:00PM Monday, nothing shows on pacer except: ABUSENO. If someone has asked for an extension and a 2004 exam, how soon would I have knowledge of it?

You would have seen Motions in the Docket for a Motion to Examine Debtor under Rule 2004 (or somesuch), and/or a Motion to Extend Deadline to Determine Dischargeability (or somesuch).

I understand PACER updates every 12 hours, but would there be any delay in it posting this objection?

I never understood it to be 12 hours. Did you read this somewhere? If an attorney uses CM/ECF (PACER) to file something, it's docketed immediately as far as I know. The only time there could be a delay is if it's filed on paper, and I don't think any Bankruptcy Court allows papers to be filed on paper, unless your a non-attorney. When submitted on paper, it still gets file stamped on the date received. When it actually gets put into the Docket depends on factors such as the day of the week it was received, the load on the people who scan the documents, and whether your case manager is on vacation or not (true story!).

I assume that this request and objection has to be filed through the courts and not my attorney or the US Trustee, am I correct.

You (or through your attorney) can actually use the 2004 Examination process too, to examine any creditor in interest... or, God forbid, the U.S. Trustee or Panel Trustee.