Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do: (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.

Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Adversary Proceeding Answer due January 6, 2011

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Adversary Proceeding Answer due January 6, 2011

    HELP...I am trying to answer an adversary proceeding pro se. I do not know where to begin. I cannot afford an attorney, they begin at $1500 and go up from there for a retainer. I am being sued by my former employer for $150000. I was the 'fiscal officer' and my boss found a way to embezzle funds. He is in prison now and they are coming after me. I filed chapter 7, and 5 days before it closed, they filed an adversary proceeding. I have too much at stake and I need some guidance...I am starting to panic. Any assistance anyone can offer would be very much appreciated...

  • #2
    Hate to say it, but WITH THAT MUCH AT STAKE and given the legal complexities of the case (this is not your run of the mill creditor objection AP), you NEED an attorney; there really is no question there; so I suggest you find a way to hire one.

    I know it's not the answer you "want," but it really is the only answer.


    • #3
      I must agree with HHM. At least hire an attorney to help formulate your Answer thus making sure you also properly plead your various Affirmative Defenses, which, if not referenced can be deemed waived. This alone is worth every penny charged.

      Once the Answer is filed, you can explore attempting to settle as litigating will cost on both sides.



      • #4
        I cannot disagree with two pros. However, the Truth is your defense. First, what are the charges? Second, it is a Civil case, not criminal. Last, tell the truth as best you can if you have to go pro se. You are in a bk so what do you have to lose? They cannot get blood from a stone, they can only get a Judgment or in an AP not discharge a particular debt.

        So, under these circumstances, best I can tell you. 'Hub
        If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.


        • #5
          I am not sure why you would be personally liable for your bosses loss when there was already an employee charged and convicted of embezzlement. How in the world can they try to say you owe the money to them and hold up your bankruptcy. Were you charged of this crime and did you sign anything accepting personal liability for this companies losses...ever?

          If you can not afford an attorney, perhaps there is one who does free consultation and will help you formulate your answers. I am in Michigan and here we have 3rd level crisis center. They provide one night a week (I believe it is every week) where it is first come first serve and attorney's will help you with whatever legal matter you have.

          Good Luck..... again, I am curious how you became personally liable for this companies losses?????
          Last edited by dneil; 12-28-2010, 07:26 PM.
          My kids better not put my FICO score on my headstone~ (quote by dspii)


          • #6
            What were your duties?

            What was embezzeled?

            How did they connect you to the embezzelement?

            Do you still have access to company records?
            Golden Jubilee was a year-long celebration held every 50 years in which all bondmen were freed, mortgaged lands were restored to the original owners, and land was left fallow: Lev. 25:8-17


            • #7
              The questions raised by the various posters is exactly why OP needs representation.

              The Complaint is most likely under 523(a)(4) and (a)(6). OP was the "fiscal officer" and probably had direct control over the company's finances. As such he had a fiduciary duty to protect the company coffers. My guess is that the employer is asserting he either knew or should have known of (or even participated in) the theft and therefore either committed the act of embezzlement and/or breached his fiduciary duty (express trust) to the company. The issue of whether or not criminal charges have been brought against OP is not relevant since the burden of proof, as it relates to the 523 Complaint, is not the same as the burden of proof in a criminal matter (just think about OJ-not guilty of murder but found responsible for wrongful death).

              The problem OP has is this type of a suit, if not settled, may require him to file a 3rd Party Complaint against the individual(s) who were responsible, assuming he is “innocent”. He has to point the finger at someone else. . . "If I am responsible to the employer than X is responsible to me or, I did nothing wrong but X did" - that kind of thing. The “fact” that someone else was charged with a crime is not enough - all that could mean is that OP is less involved than someone else, but involved, nonetheless.

              Yes, hiring an attorney to defend through trial is very expensive - and one could lose. However, unless one is a highly skilled litigator (which OP admits he is not) this is not something one can defend pro se.

              My experience with these types of matters is that they eventually settle with neither party being very happy but both parties realizing that litigating is too expensive. I just finished one. Lost the trial but the parties settled because we filed a Notice of Appeal and the Plaintiff did not want to deal with an appeal.



              • #8
                Yes, my title was 'Finance Director' and as such I was the fiscal officer. I did not have the responsibility of budgets and approving checks, my boss did this and our Board was aware (all personal family friends and family to the boss). my other duties included Human Resources, student enrollment from speaking w/parents to assisting with the completion of the application, to processing it, Nurse, door answerer, receptionist, mail courier, mail opener, after hours emergency contact for the alarm company, bank runner and all other duties as required. With all of these duties, it was impossible to cover everything in a timely manner. I was promised help and given a pep talk when I complained the job was too much. We were a small start up, and when the budget allows, I would be given an assistant. Just hang in there. I was paid decent and convinced I was needed, so I did hang in there. I never got the assistant so with all I had to do, it was impossible to pay attention to all details like reconciling the checks in a timely fashion. So, therefore, I was negligent in my duties is what they are stating. It is a civil suit. I have a home that is unpaid for, and I guess they are trying to take that.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Scapegoat View Post
                  with all I had to do, it was impossible to pay attention to all details like reconciling the checks in a timely fashion. So, therefore, I was negligent in my duties. . .
                  This is why I implore you to get legal representation. Negligence alone does not rise to the level necessary to except an alleged "debt" under 523. There must be more. . . gross negligence maybe even reckless disregard, a breach of an express trust, willful misconduct. . .something. My guess is that the employer holds all of the cards. Once it makes a prima facia showing of your “liability” the burden is going to shift to you to show that, based upon the circumstances, your conduct was either not negligent or, if negligent was nothing more than simple negligence. In fact, it sounds like part of your defense is the contributory negligence of the employer. Maybe you should be suing the employer in a Counterclaim. Again, these are all issues you need to discuss with a qualified attny.



                  • #10
                    Negligence is not enough for them to prevail, but you will need legal representation.


                    • #11

                      I have a family member who ended up with a lot of problems when someone at his company, lower in the organization, did some overly-creative things in the accounting arena. It was a high-profile company and I now go visit this family member several times each month... in a federal prison. I realize that this might just be about a BK right now, but I can't stress the urgency of getting solid representation. If you think you're a scapegoat for your former employer, just wait to see how it feels when some overzealous, career-promoting district attorney takes interest. All it takes is a DA with aspirations of becoming a judge or a senator/congressman. Your post kinda freaks me out because I've seen just how fast the rug can get pulled out from under people. It's hard to explain because we're all brought up to believe the system stands on "innocent until proven guilty." Not always the case. Just be careful.
                      OK - from now on it's not a "Bankruptcy." It's a "Weight Loss Program." I'm in. Sign me up.


                      • #12
                        I appreciate all of the advise I have received from everyone....and belive me I have tried to secure counsel. However, attorney's will practically hang up on the phone when they hear you don't have the amount of retainer they are requesting. No one works on payments. The Legal Aide Society in my area does not handle these types of cases. I have even reached out to a friend whose husband is an attorney, and have not heard back. It's all about money. So, I am afraid I will be forced to attempt a reply on my own. I dont want to just not respond. I did contact the bankruptcy court and they cant give legal advise, but was told to just write a letter explaining my side like I was talking to another person. I think I wiil attempt to write it in legal format and letter form.....wish me luck...I am going to need it.


                        • #13
                          I successfully filed the answer to the complaint on my own...I just received a letter from the plaintiff notifying me of a conference date that we need to set for a phone conference and discovery. I have not been successful in securing an attorney and financially, I don't believe getting an attorney is going to be possible. Any advice anyone has on handling the conference for 'voluntary disclosures' Rule 26(a)(1) and making a discovery plan would be very much appreciated.


                          Unconfigured Ad Widget