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    Relocating after BK13

    This is a subject I do not see often discussed on these forums.
    If you live in a high COL state like Colorado and if you know you were driven into Bk 13 because of rapidly rising home/rent increases, why not plan and execute a plan of escape once your court enforced shackles are removed?
    In our case buying an atrocious fixer upper in 2014 that required over a $100k in updates and repairs and then was hurriedly sold after my mother's abrupt death in 2016 forced us into this BK13 which will end in 2022.
    The house we bought in October 2016 (4 months before filing) is taking almost half of my husband 's "fixed" salary and the leased solar panels have 15 more years until the lease ends. The defense contractor offers decent HSA medical (for the field) and better life insurance benefits but no more than 2% annual raises, no profit sharing (which none of the competitors offer as well) no bonuses,etc. Should he lose this job (as he nearly did over the summer) we would have no choice but to allow foreclosure or sell "as is" (the master bathroom needs repair ,our cats have damaged parts of the wall to wall carpet,and the paint really needs to be redone, as well as the above referenced solar panels.) If he can hang on to this job until this BK is over, then we can hopefully patch the few things that need repair and hopefully sell in 2024 (when our credit should be fully restored) and move to a cheaper place where even if he has to take a 40% pay cut we can live on less, maybe travel a little again.
    What I am saying is this $2200+ mortgage is not sustainable for 28 more years and prices in Colorado are only going up -the average cost of a house here is nearly $500k. Medical care (particularly chiropractic) is not the best and very expensive in this company HSA and the scenery doesn't cut it for me (I can not ski or hike because of numerous and almost crippling ankle injuries) , I don't need or want marijuana and culture is not comparable to other areas of the country where I have lived.
    In a nut shell, this place is no paradise when your financial prospects are dismal and your mortgage can only go up!
    I have also considered the prospect of another rapid decline in the housing market which would guarantee a forced foreclosure and this could happen before we can get out of this market.( 20024 at the earliest I am estimating.)
    I am no longer active as an actress singer or a VO artist, have no college degree although I attended school for almost 5 years and paid off off a student loan after 18 years. On the BK13 I am listed as a housewife with no employment. The trustee is closely monitoring our income to see if I ever earn any money or if Jason gets a large enough raise to seize.
    I apologize for the lengthy post but I need some advise about how to plan our exit from this pricey place so we don't end up refiling for bk because he loses his job and can't find another that pays enough to pay this very high mortgage and we end up on the street trying to rent a $1500+ studio apartment and having to ditch our things in a yard sale. As of now, we have only a small 401k from my husband's current job for retirement and no prospects to save even after we finish the BK. (We will need to do those house repairs I mentioned plus possibly replace some appliances or patch other HVAC systems -these are the great unknowns!)
    If any one survived their BK 13 and faced a similar after BK scenario how did you resolve your situation? Did you come out with any money? How are you doing now?
    Thank you all!

    #2
    Hi...sorry, I can't answer your question nor was my situation similar, but I'm just curious..have you thought about surrendering your house now (or selling it) and walking away with a clean start? Sounds like you're putting far too much money into it wih no guarantee of a return (even though prices are/have been climbing).
    Filed Chapter 13 - 07/20/12
    Discharged 8/2/16

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      #3
      Thanks Sophieanne for replying.
      If we were to surrender the house now we would have to pack up and move to an overpriced rental with four cats.Rents around here for as much space as we have is the same ($2200) and even a bare boned one bedroom apartment is more than $1000. Plus the trustee would raise our payment by $1000+ and I'm not sure we could get out of the solar panel lease. (It is practically written in blood that you pay the monthly fee until the 20 year contract is paid off at which time you must renew the lease, pay out right for the system or have them removed. Your other choice is to sell the contract to the next buyer.)
      You are so right -I am convinced we will lose money , but maybe we can have stability until we're done and are no longer under the trustee's yoke. Then my husband can find a job (probably involving a substantial pay cut) in a state where decent mid-level houses don't sell for nearly $500k and where we have a chance to live again with out BK13 number 2 waiting around the corner.

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        #4
        I would also like to add that since Colorado is becoming more and more unaffordable by the day and the roads are becoming more and more clogged with accidents and traffic, not to mention the coming water shortage crisis, we are smart to start planning our escape before we end up in a nursing home with absolutely nothing because we stayed where we were until it was too late and we were too old to get out.

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          #5
          I understand....nothing is ever easy. Are you in a less than 100% plan? Is your house included in the plan. Just wonder if you didn't have the house if it would impact your plan in any way. I know some people are in a 13 just to save their house. If they didn't have the house could the plan MAYBE be converted to a 7? I'm not suggesting you give up your home if that's not what you want to do. Just sounds like you're in a tight situation with only one of you working.
          Filed Chapter 13 - 07/20/12
          Discharged 8/2/16

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks,Sophieanne.
            No, we are far from a 100% -actually only a little over a quarter. Any apartment in the Denver area would cost at least $1500 (to keep our furbabies and live in a safe, close- to- my husband's job area) The house sale would have be approved and overseen by the trustee and court; the solar company would have a say (we have 15 years left on our iron clad lease) and at present we have no savings to finance any even small repairs or a move any where else. My concern provided my husband hangs on to his job is the long term unsustainability of this high mortgage -even if we can refinance out of the PMI ($250 per month) our mortgage will always be more than $2000 for the life of our loan and my husband will probably never be able earn much more than he is currently and my days of performance here are sadly behind me (I was struggling before and wasn't earning money and now I'm considered "too old" in this market to work on camera.) Buying another overpriced house in this market is suicide and this is a very poor place to live out your life when you are not a outdoorsy type of person.I would rather be able to travel and maybe try my luck elsewhere as an actor and singer (German and French caberet , German folk songs and Broadway crossover music is not a big hit here.) Being trapped here because we have no exit strategy is even worse than this BK!
            BTW we have no arrears or late payments -we bought this house with out ever intending to file.We just couldn't pay the huge unsecured debt every month we had left! So to answer your question I think the house and car are included even though they are current and have never been reported as late. And yes if we shed the house our payments would be higher but not enough to ever pay the BK off 100%. One more thing, the lawyer specifically told us that if I ever started working again while we were in this BK13 ,the trustee would seize 100% of anything I earned -so why would I want to kill my back (I can not stand for hours as most of these jobs demand) just to give creditors a little more money?( I can hardly afford regular chiro visits as it now! )
            Last edited by Barbisi; 10-10-2018, 01:07 PM.

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              #7
              I'm sorry for your situation (finance and personal)..i hope your plan goes smoothly and you're able to put a plan into action to take back your life. Hopefully the prices in Colorado keep going up and you make some good money to leave with and go to your new life. I'm cheering you on and hoping for nothing but a stable time during you plan.
              Filed Chapter 13 - 07/20/12
              Discharged 8/2/16

              Comment


                #8
                Thank you for your kind supportive reply, Sophieanne -you are truly an empathetic person! We've got to get out of here in one piece and that's what worries me most -that the housing market and my husband's job will rook us yet again or even worse one of us will develop a fatal disease and have to die here after receiving standard sub-par HSA care.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Barbisi View Post
                  Thank you for your kind supportive reply, Sophieanne -you are truly an empathetic person! We've got to get out of here in one piece and that's what worries me most -that the housing market and my husband's job will rook us yet again or even worse one of us will develop a fatal disease and have to die here after receiving standard sub-par HSA care.
                  An HSA is a Health Savings Account. It's a bank account. It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of care received using the money.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Well TOMJ1, all I know is, since my husband 's company switched to an HSA -only insurance plan, we have struggled to pay for ordinary care(i.e.primary care, chiropractic care, routine blood tests) and expensive extra tests (MRIs , foot biopsies, nerve conduction studies ,etc. ) ordered and performed by subpar foot doctors, radiologists, neurologists.etc.
                    I'm glad you 're satisfied with your out of pocket HSA costs and the care you have received. I'm not.
                    Last edited by Barbisi; 10-13-2018, 04:03 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The problems you describe are about your health insurance plan. I was just clarifying that an HSA is a savings account with a bank and doesn't have anything to do with the quality of care. It's like switching checking accounts from Bank of America to Wells Fargo and saying the quality of the produce at the grocery store where you use your debit card decreased as a result.

                      I didn't mention anything about my personal health insurance, so I'm not sure where that comment is coming from.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I noticed that you haven't made any comments about your own Bk,so I have to assume you are just curious about others' situation and have no experience with any financial difficulty. If this is not the case,pardon my misinformation.
                        FYI, the HSA is directly impacting my health care because I can not afford to go as often as I need because of the cost incurred and I had to have tests and a biopsy done at the end of last year because I couldn't wait to see if I needed the procedure done the next year because I would have to re -pay my deductible all over again to receive 80% coverage. Those of you with high deductibles can empathize.
                        Trying to afford a $3000 deductible with out any DMI is a struggle, something you apparently do not understand judging by your reply. So please do not comment about HSAs again.
                        What I have is an HSA health plan,just like I used to have a POS insurance plan prior to BK13 that disappeared in 2016.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          How hard would it be to get into a ch7? You have a high mortgage, a house that needs a lot of work, and you might have high medical expenses. The high medical expenses need to be documented. Much better to pay health expenses or donate big to your church rather than creditors in ch13. If you had a ch7, I would not reaffirm the mortgage and let them foreclose the house and live rent free for a while to build savings. This house is not sustainable long term given the shaky job situation and age discrimination. With the ch7 instead of ch13, you could work after discharge and not give a cent to unsecured creditors. I'd rent the cheapest place possible in Denver or outlying area even in a crappy part of town and save like mad until the layoff comes. I'd reduce the number of cats to make it easier to rent. Then move to a low cost of living area with a job after he loses the Denver job.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi,flashologht, thanks for your reply.
                            Much of what you say here makes sense but until my husband loses his job (if indeed that happens before the BK13 ends!) the trustee would never allow us to convert to a 7 because we are above the median income for Colorado enough that even the high mortgage and solar panel lease is not a reason to to be allowed into a 7. The mortgage and solar panel lease were factored into the payment plan. If the house did sell as I now understand it, the trustee could seize any equity we would have received. And we have no money to move anywhere plus as a woman I would fear living in a dangerous part of town.
                            As for the cats, I would never consider getting rid of any of them until I had to - they are my fur children! One is already almost 16 years old and probably will not survive the BK 13 any way.
                            As for my health issues the company my husband works for at present offers the best benefits of any comparable aerospace company, so there is little hope of ever ever getting back to a POP or POS health plan - they apparently don't exist anymore except for high ranking executives - HSAs are the only kind of insurance plan left for engineers like my husband.



                            Comment


                              #15
                              Remember above median is not a bar to ch7. It just makes it harder. Even below median is not a guarantee to a ch7 if your schedule I and J numbers give you disposable income.I agree you can't ch7 on your mortgage and lease alone. Charitable contributions, mortgage, medical expenses, and income reduction (FMLA leave) are the big guns to squeeze you into a ch7. After the ch7, I think you need to get rid of the house via foreclosure. Keep up the mortgage payments for the time being until you talk to a lawyer.

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