If I have more than $167 in disposable income

[hootown]

per month but make less than the state median income, can I do the 3 year plan, or will I have to do the 5 year plan bc I am over the $166 dollar figure?

[aa06a47]

You should be able to be in a 3 year plan as long as you can pay back any arrears for secured debt you may have, and pay back as much as you would under a chapter 7 liquidation.

You might be able to increase some of your expenses, life insurance, medical insurance, ect, to get yourself below the 100 figure and file a straight 7.

[hootown]

What if I have 4 k equity in my car and I want to keep the car in Ch 13. If I have $167 in disposable income will they make me pay that amount or do I get to pay $111/ month for 3 years ( 4k/36 months) ? Part of the reason I have disposable income is bc I have no car payment. I have credit card debts and am wondering how this all works.

[lrprn]

What if I have 4 k equity in my car and I want to keep the car in Ch 13. If I have $167 in disposable income will they make me pay that amount or do I get to pay $111/ month for 3 years ( 4k/36 months) ? Part of the reason I have disposable income is bc I have no car payment. I have credit card debts and am wondering how this all works.

Keep in mind that disposable income on the Means Test isn't as simple as subtracting your expenses from your income. Like tax forms, any time the government is involved, getting to the final answer will not be straightforward.

How did you arrive at your $167/month disposable income figure?

[hootown]

It's a guess based on subtracting my expenses from my average monthly income. I make below the state median income. How does one determine their monthly disposable income? Would it be on schedule J ?

[SinkingFast]

Lots of times, we just forget expenses.

Like postage. Ink cartridges and paper for your printer. Annual virus protection software renewal. Newspaper and magazine subscriptions.

Take a look at the BK Expense Calculator and see if it jogs your mind about routine, every day expenses you just forget when you're trying hard to figure where your money goes.

http://www.ca-bankruptcy-attorneys.c...alculator.html

[hootown]

One attorney said 2k of 3,200 in attorney's fees would be wrapped in the ch 13 plan. Do I need to have a repayment plan that wil include the equity in my car (4k) plus attorney's fees (2k) plus the trustee's fees to make it work ? I read somewhere if your disposable income multiplied by 60 exceeds that amount , you get the surplus back? What am I missing?

[lrprn]

It's a guess based on subtracting my expenses from my average monthly income. I make below the state median income. How does one determine their monthly disposable income? Would it be on schedule J ?

Fill out Schedule I for your income, fill out Schedule J for expenses, then fill out the detailed expense attachment to document additional expenses not found on Schedule J. (For example, our cable, internet, cell phones, education necessary to maintain my employment, retirement loan repayment, etc. are listed on our form.)

The estimated monthly Ch 13 payment is approximately Schedule I income (Line 16) minus Schedule J expenses (Line 18) minus the Detailed Expense Attachment total.

[SinkingFast]

One attorney said 2k of 3,200 in attorney's fees would be wrapped in the ch 13 plan. Do I need to have a repayment plan that wil include the equity in my car (4k) plus attorney's fees (2k) plus the trustee's fees to make it work ? I read somewhere if your disposable income multiplied by 60 exceeds that amount , you get the surplus back? What am I missing?

So, OK, you have Consulted with at least one attny. Have you had more than one Consult with one attny??

Did that attny specifically tell you that you had to have less than $167/mo in disposable income to not file Ch 13??!!

Is that one attny saying Below the Median does not count? It all comes down to I vs J??

The reason you are not getting a clear answer from any of us is we haven't had anyone post here who filed Below the Median and was forced into a Ch 13.

Filers below the Median are going Ch 7 successfully unless they have a reason to file Ch 13. In arrears on a house they want to keep. That type of thing. Filers above the Median without enough Secured Debt payments are going Ch 13.

Is there some hidden piece of information that attny knows that we don't. Like most of your unsecured debt is gambling based, lots of cash advances, that you don't have records to prove where the money went, or the Court is biased against gamblers??

[hootown]

I am considering Ch 13 to keep the car. The credit card debts are over 10 years old and not even on my credit report. They are suing me currently for those old debts, and I don't have the money to pay. I have 4k in my car that is not exempt.

I am confused about the repayment plan. If my disposable income is $225 per month , do I just pay that over 3 years? Or is it the 4k in the car plus the 2k for attorney's fees plus the trustee fees divided by 36 months ? Let's say that comes out to $175/ month. Which one do I pay the $175 or the $225 ?


My guess is that they take as much as they can from you.

I read in one book it's possible to overpay in Ch 13.

I'm wondering if paying the $225 would be overpaying?

[SinkingFast]

Tell us about your car.

Make, model, year, mileage and overall condition.

Also, what State do you live in??

Your car may not be worth as much as you are thinking it is.

Did the attny you met with tell you the car is worth $4K or did you tell the attny it's worth $4K??

You don't have to file a Ch 13 to protect excess equity in a vehicle.

Siezing and selling assets is not quick, easy, or cheap for Trustees to do.

Trustees have people that conduct sales for them. Kah-ching. Costs for the Trustee. On average, a Trustee expects it to cost 10% to sell an asset.

Also, Trustees know they won't get top dollar. They sell quick for the best price offered on the day of the sale.

For Trustees, it's cheaper and faster to make a deal with you than to sieze your car.

So let's say your car is really worth $2K and you have a $1K vehicle exemption. The Trustee may decide to split the difference with you and offer to settle for $500. You pay the Trustee $500, you get your Ch 7 Discharge, and you get to keep the car.

[hootown]

I'm in Ohio and I got the value from Kelly Blue book. The attorney also verified the value of the car to be 5k . In Ohio the car exemption is 1K. That's how I arrived at 4k.

[SinkingFast]

KBB tends to run high. And you don't wanna use Retail pricing either. You aren't a car dealer. You wouldn't get full retail trying to sell your car yourself.

Our attny used Edmunds.com and averaged the wholesale, private party, and retail prices to determine the values of our vehicles.

There are other ways to obtain values. Older cars, especially with higher mileage, typically don't bring full value at sale.

You can go to some dealerships and ask for written purchase statements. How much would the dealership pay to purchase your car from you right then and there, on the spot.

Look in the newspaper and online ads for similar vehicles. See how much private individuals are asking for the same make, model, and year of car.

Document any defects. We dinged the value of one of our vehicles with an estimate to repair rust damage. The repair estimate cut the value of that vehicle in half.