Paypal Accounts and Chapter 13

[MajorMike]

Our attorney nor trustee asked for bank statements either. What would be the point? It has nothing to do with our expendable income...

[joab]

Okay, so if the PP account is not a bank account, and it has a zero balance on the day I file, there doesn't seem like there would be anything to disclose. It's not like the existence of the PP account has any inherent value.

But if I have, say, $200 in the account on the day I file, I would technically need to disclose it as an asset, just like I would cash, money orders, uncashed checks made out to me, etc. Right?

[epiphany]

Our attorney nor trustee asked for bank statements either. What would be the point? It has nothing to do with our expendable income...

Others on this site have been asked for bank statements. I believe the point would be to try and find out if there are deposits being made to your bank account that do not match your disclosed income. So while your attorney or trustee has not asked for bank statements (my attorney has not....yet anyway....asked me for them either), there are some who do and will.

The point here is that we should all be as prepared as we can be for any possible scenario. Full disclosure to a good thing, IMO, when you have nothing to hide.

EP

[epiphany]

Okay, so if the PP account is not a bank account, and it has a zero balance on the day I file, there doesn't seem like there would be anything to disclose. It's not like the existence of the PP account has any inherent value.

But if I have, say, $200 in the account on the day I file, I would technically need to disclose it as an asset, just like I would cash, money orders, uncashed checks made out to me, etc. Right?

My vote is yes. Or spend it on necessities before you file.

EP

[Catia]

I understand, and also empathize much of the frustration of both sides of this discussion.
Look, we are all in the same boat, or we would not be here on this site seeking information. In seeking this information, we are relying on others sharing their experiences, and their experiences are OF COURSE subject to their personl experiences.
It does little good for this site to attack or berate or invalidate someone and/or their situation for their giving of this info, especially when it is precisely what you are asking for. My suggestion would be, if you do not like the personal experiences, then seek an attorney who will give sterile, unpersonal direction.
There are tons of things here that I read that I do not like, or agree with, some info is fact, some is opinion, some is law and is interperated differently by each trustee/lawyer/judge in each individual case, this is the nature of the beast. That being so, there is also a wealth of information here, and lots of caring folks who are willing to give some time and explain what they do understand, and theorize on what they do not.
***Of course we are all trying to find a 'way out' to avoid some of the pitfalls of BK, and careful planning and researching is one of those ways. Sometimes, what you are told is not what you want to hear, but sometimes, it is just a fact, and you gotta find a way to work with it.
Now, this post originally was a question somewhat about risk/discovery...regarding paypal. IMHO, I believe that PayPal in and of itself IS NOT an asset--BUT--BUT--IT IS AN INSTRUMENT THAT CAN HOLD AND TRANSFER ASSETS--and that is where the risk of hiding it lay.
Is a few hundred, or even just $20 worth p*ssing off a trustee and giving them more work--is it worth having your BK dismissed??? The second a trustee discovers an inconsistancy, or hidden asset, things change. Thousands have tried to get over on the trustees, many have failed, they've seen every asset hiding trick in the book. It costs you nothing to include your paypal info in your BK from the beginning, and it takes no extra work--however--it may cost you more in $$ and in audit to not include it later down the line. If you have nothing to hide, than do not hide it. If the account is worthless, why not list it, along with other accounts--just proves you have one more WORTHLESS account--and that is to your benefit. just my 2 cents.

[Flamingo]

Our attorney nor trustee asked for bank statements either. What would be the point? It has nothing to do with our expendable income...

The key here is that it seems a good number of people have to provide bank statements so most people getting ready to file need so folks need to keep that in mind. As I stated previously, and this was old law (new law calls for much more detail than old law), we had to provide one year of checking and savings account statements from our bank with an explanation to each deposit over $1,000 and an explanation for each check written or withdrawal made over a certain amount (I believe it was $500). You can easily tell what their reasoning is for that. We also had to provide 6 months of pay stubs. Trustees vary in what they want and you just do not know what they are going to require but you can pretty much guess that your income and outgo for maybe up to a year prior to filing may be under scrutiny.

As to PayPal, PayPal is a "custodial" account in which one can hold funds. PayPal also provides other accounts which are fully listed on their site. If you review their Legal Agreements online, you will see they are quite long and involved as to each account they offer. While it is not a bank account, it is tied to one. Other "custodial" accounts that one may have at the time of filing include holding funds for a minor in a custodial account for their benefit (but under your name so it is still funds available to you that you can withdraw) or if you are the beneficiary of a trust from which you may receive disbursements during the course of your filing.