Filed Pro Se

[MajorMike]

Hello?

[MajorMike]

Did you file pro se for a reason? I know you can put the payment to the attorney in the plan for most.....so I wondered.

[justbroke]

There's another way to save money with PACER. If you register with Electronic Bankruptcy Noticing (http://www.ebnuscourts.com/) you can get most things, except Claims and other items, via e-mail links. The first pull from the e-mail link is free. Just save it off.

Learning how to save things (even if you just peruse it and think "I'll never look at that again") is important. A good filing system is important too.

I already wasted alot of money on PACER so I'm speaking from a little experience.

[arkienurse]

I just filed Pro Se for protection under Chapter 13 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. That was a LOT of paperwork!

Going to the Clerk's Office was fun... I was out of there in less than 5 minutes. It was worth going, because the local form on their website is different from the local form they are using. Go figure!

Now it's fun telling all the creditors that the automatic stay is in affect. Actually, I was in the middle of a MODIFICATION of my mortgage on my investment property. We had completed the deal and I called today to talk with the Negotiator. She said she can't help me anymore because she talked to the Bank's attorney, and they informed her that I filed Chapter 13.

I was able to probe the Negotiator and asked her "if the Trustee agrees can I get the same modification deal?" (The deal put all the arrearages into the loan). She said yes, so I have to wait to talk with the Trustee.

I'll keep everyone up to date on what happens at my 341 meeting.

ETA: I have a PACER account and see my case is in the system. Will check PACER daily as the fun now begins.

My hat is off to you for having the guts to file a 13 pro se

[arkienurse]

Congratulations on filing pro se!!! Good luck to you, and I hope there won't be any bumps in the road.

BTW be very careful of checking PACER every day. Each time you click and look at a page it is $.08. That may not look like much, but it adds up very quickly. We just got a bill the other day for the past quarter and we owe $128.00 that we could sure use someplace else.

With many thanks to SinkingFast, here is her post on PACER. If you follow her instructions, you can check and see if there is a new filing in your case without incurring further expense. And always save a copy of whatever you look at, because you are charged every time you look it up on PACER:


.................................................. .....................................
Since PACER can be confusing to use, I thought I'd post a short Tutorial on how to access information about an Individual's Case.

When you go to PACER, you'll have to register to gain access.

Tool bar at the top of the PACER main page, upper Left, Register. If you use a Debit Card, you can get your log-in ID and password via email. And you can get immediate access. Otherwise, you have to wait for that info to come in the mail, about a week to 10 days or so.

After you get your ID and password, go to Links on the PACER main page. Top toolbar, upper left, next to Register. You'll get a drop down menu.

Select PACER Links. Next page, select BK, upper toolbar to the right.

Then, find your State and District. Click on that link.

Next page, you'll see a Court Seal top center with a Link under it. Click on that link.

Next page, you log in with your User ID and password. Click "log-in" and it will take you to a new page.

In the top toolbar, select Query. Next page, you can enter your BK Case number or SSN and click "run query". It will take you right to the main page of your BK filing.

BK paperwork is posted on PACER in .pdf format so you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader to open the files.

Be sure to check the Date of Last Filing when you access info about your case. If that date does not change, no new info has been posted in your case. No need to access Status, History, or Documents. Therefore, no cost to check and see if anything's happened in your Case while you wait.
.................................................. ...............................


PS- I miss SF a lot, wish she would come back to visit.

[BKParalegal]

Well it sounds like you have done your homework, so congrats to you for handling a monumental task. And way to be proactive and object to the claims, you will be surprised at your success with that.

Good Luck

[justbroke]

Wow 75% to your unsecureds?!? Umm, that is a bit....no that is really high, hopefully your unsecured creditor pool was small and that is why the percentage is high. It is only been in very extreme cases where i have paid much more than 30% on the dollar to unsecureds. Also, I have to believe it is rare for someone to file a Pro Se 13. There are so many nuances to getting the plan right as well as the budget, and this is using software developed for that.

Lastly, what are your payment and for how long?

Good Luck

Well, I have very sufficient income to fund 70%-80% to unsecureds (about $2.7K/month) on top of about $3.4K a month in debt service to secureds. The major difference is in how much the Trustee gets (up to $610/month in my plan!) You'd think the unsecured creditors would object to that!

I filed to save property due to arrearages and property taxes.

Yes, Chapter 13 Pro Se is complex, but I have plenty of time on my hands (I'm employed, but I like research anyhow). Yes, there are nuances, and I studied over 100 Plans from my District and have been communicative with the Trustee's office and becoming acquainted with the Clerks in the Court. I visit the court often so they know me when they see me.

Yes, I'm no lawyer, and this is not for the average person (filing Chapter 13 pro se). You have to say on top of many things, and study the Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure as well as follow Local Rules. If I get into an Adversary Proceeding... I may just give up and hire a lawyer.

I was actually complimented by the Trustee's office for being on top of things.

[BKParalegal]

Wow 75% to your unsecureds?!? Umm, that is a bit....no that is really high, hopefully your unsecured creditor pool was small and that is why the percentage is high. It is only been in very extreme cases where i have paid much more than 30% on the dollar to unsecureds. Also, I have to believe it is rare for someone to file a Pro Se 13. There are so many nuances to getting the plan right as well as the budget, and this is using software developed for that.

Lastly, what are your payment and for how long?

Good Luck

[justbroke]

Plan filed on Thursday... woohoo! That just cost me $41.00 in postage alone.

I just got my first Claim and I just filed an objection to it. It's an "assigned" loan and they didn't provide sufficient documentation on the assignment, and the loan is shaky as it doesn't describe the actual property that they hold a security interest against, so it's a motion to disallow the entire claim. I hope I am granted my motion!

Anyhow, sure there are lots more objections and motions coming. Should get even more interesting soon.

The Trustee's office asked me not to mail them things. They will get automatic updates from the Court (electronic notification). I guess they don't want a lot of service by mail. Will save me a few stamps I guess.

[liz417]

Hi Justbroke,
It sounds like you are well prepared! Good Luck!

[justbroke]

Latest news...

Nothing interesting happening in PACER. Just notices of appearance.

I completed my plan and it pays unsecured creditors 75% or better. (That's if the Trustee only gets th 7.5% that they are supposed to. If the Trustee takes 10%, then the unsecured get about 71.5%. Interesting that no creditor ever Objects to the Trustee's commission! )

The plan is 6 pages (7 including the mailing matrix). I have to mail it to 40 "interested parties"/creditors tomorrow. I asked the clerk of the court if they will notify the folks, and she says no.. but sometimes the case manager will. Oh well... here goes around $50.00 to mail out the plan. I'll be able to file for Administrative fees with the Trustee.

So, I just printed 320 pages to stuff in 40 envelopes... oh boy. Wish I had a paralegal or clerk myself.

I just can't wait to see the objections. I think that's the most interesting part of this whole thing. Everything else is just... really predictable. The objections are not.

I also calculated and calculated and calculated (have my own Form B 22C Excel spreadsheet that also calculates payments over the term specifically by creditor. It's really complex and has about 8 sheets in it.) I can defend any number quite easily on my laptop. My local court actually encourages use of computers even in the courtroom. So anyhow, my calculations predict that if my department store ("purchase money security interest") creditors go for secured status, they'll get no more than if they just claim as unsecured because I would file a 506 valuation on them (since I haven't purchased anything in over a year on any of them). Some of those secured creditors, I haven't purchased for 3 years (furniture). So, should be interesting.

I'll keep updating you guys. I have to go file my Plan with the Clerk tomorrow and then mail out these 40 envelopes.

[funspot08]

Best of luck to you! I filed pro-se three years ago in Chapter 13 for my wife and I and I was proud that I was only the second person in this district (one of busiest in the country) that the trustee had ever approved, and this was a very long standing district trustee.
Filing with the 'new' bankruptcy code is an even more daunting task with all the new parameters.

We successfully have finished the plan and the trustee has put an order into the court for our discharge, so it CAN be done!

A few quick tips: Most likely, the trustee will object to something in your plan. We were lucky as I spoke to an attorney at the trustee's office about an objection to the plan and he pointed out a few little issues with the plan along with the objection. They can't give you legal advice, but if you get a nice person to deal with at the trustee's office with issues relating to objections to the plan, you might get a few "well, if it was me, this is what I would do.. but remember, that's me and I can't dish out legal advice for you."

Best of luck to you and believe me, it can be done!

[AngelinaCatHub]

As far as I am concerned, I started with 13 and a lawyer. Went to 7 later due to job loss, and I might as well have gone pro se. This lawyer is no real help. ‘Hub

[justbroke]

I agree with Major. I wouldn't want anyone else to try this. The only thing I think someone may want to try is a Chapter 7 Pro Se. The Chapter 13 is just too drawn out.

Today I had to prepare (not file) three motions and one "proposed" order. I don't encourage anyone to do this at all. Reminds me... I need to take another backup of everything...

You need to be meticulous, version your files, deal with what motions you're gonna file. Deal with ones you're required to file (Motion for Wage Deduction Order)... The fun hasn't even begun yet with two other motions I'm working on (Motion to Value Security) and then all the Objections I'm sure I'll have to deal with.

I think I'm going to sit in next week on some of the hearings. I looked up my Judge's calendar and will pull some of the interesting files and see what it's like in front of her. Actually, I've already pulled some of them.

[MajorMike]

I agree Flamingo. I'd pay an attorney $5K or more to handle this even if I had to eat ramen noodles for months!