Chapter 13 Trustee has his own Expenses Standards, say what?

[optimistic1]

Those numbers probably do not make sense.

I think $280 on food for a single person is very low, even if you bring breakfast and lunch to work each day.

Many companies are not offering free coffee anymore so just buying a cup of coffee while at work will cost you a $1 or $2 a day.

Unfortunately it is what it is. I called the Trustee himself, and he said they do in fact use that sheet for looking at NORMAL costs for people, and anything over, might be ok, but it depends on just how much you are talking about.

On the other hand, for extra food costs, I just simply take the full $75 in home maintenance, I dont think I have even spent $75 in the last two years on home maintenance.

[MJJ3767]

I called the Trustee's office, and they confirmed with me that they do in fact use that very sheet I referenced and linked to, to determine if you are spending more than what is normal.

I am in AZ too and those are the same figures I was given. It's not some outdated form some attorneys are using.

I guess that's the whole point of Chapter 13, to keep you on a VERY tight budget. It's wasn't too hard for me to adapt, I was already living within those guidelines.

[optimistic1]

I think its ridiculous, but Im not worried, because I would be claiming similar amounts, and some would even be less, so I know there will be no RED FLAGS on my case. But I still think that it doesnt make sense, but what do I know, right?

Anything that is not on that list, you just need to prove, so unless your lying through your teeth should it even bother you.

I think I have finally found my attorney, he graduated in 1989, and was admitted to the State bar more than 10 years ago. He ran all my numbers through Best Case, and a Trustee website to see if it was confirmable. I never had any attorney do that, so I will give him the go ahead. Im just glad to have this part over with.

[justbroke]

Since when does the Chapter 13 Trustee have his own expenses standards?

LOL. I had to get back up off the floor! I would have LOVED to have had this Trustee assigned to me. Pro Se or not, we would have dueled it out in a contested matter in Court before the Judge.

Also, it could just be that your lawyer is using old forms. Generally, check the Trustee's website. They usually have interesting tidbits there.

[justbroke]

Think that is archaic?

In doing research for FL exemptions, I found this info.

"The question is whether the legislature went far enough. The $1,000 exemption from creditor claims was carried over from the Florida Constitution of 1868. According to the Office of Economic and Demographic Research, $1,000 in 1868 is approximately $15,000 today."

Yeah, but that was a Constitution, which they never like changing. This thread is talking about a Trustee... just making up their own numbers, outside the law (Title 11 of the United State's Code).

[justbroke]

Unfortunately it is what it is. I called the Trustee himself, and he said they do in fact use that sheet for looking at NORMAL costs for people, and anything over, might be ok, but it depends on just how much you are talking about..

After reading that Chapter 13 guidelines... I had to laugh again. They are crazy. They are talking $710.00 a month to feed a family of 4. I get $1,370 according to the IRS Guidelines. That's almost 50% of the guideline.

They are crazy crazy crazy. Someone needs to fight them. I bet that they don't fight. They just put up this roadblock to see who complies.

As a matter of fact, if you look at the bottom right hand corner of that form, you'll see the numbers "11/03". This is the date in which it was written. it's pre-BAPCPA.

I'd have this thrown out day one in court. If the Judge agreed with the Trustee, I'd tell him I'm planning to appeal to the US District Court immediately, and to go to the BAP and 11th Circuit if necessary as well... and that I'm positive I'll win in the Circuit. (No judge likes to be overruled.)

I'm beginning to believe that this lawyer is just carrying around an OLD copy of the rules. I also can't find anything like that on the USTP Region 14 website at all.

[optimistic1]

It can't be an old copy, because I called the Trustee's office, and they confirmed it is the same one that they use. I am as frustrated and baffled as you are. They are going against everything the new laws have enacted. I'm just lucky that I am not really going over any of the amounts proposed on a ridiculous sheet that they use that isn't even adjusted for inflation. Makes me want to vomit. I checked the trustee's website, they had all kinds of forms, except for that one, of course.

I think that they just use it to challenge debtors, that if you spend twice as much for food, that they call red flag, and ask for receipts. I guess it is their job, but, they are idiots, because their standards are so WAY off compared to IRS standards as you have pointed out.

As MJJ3767 stated.

"I am in AZ too and those are the same figures I was given. It's not some outdated form some attorneys are using. "

Pretty sick stuff.

Make sure no one move to Arizona, you will be up against the Trustee from another planet.