Can I quit my job or get "laid off" to qualify for CH 7?

[zenbit]

I have searched through many posts here and learned a great deal. I have found a few who seem to be in my position - but I'll just come right out and ask this question...

Can I quit my job, or somehow managed to get "laid off" in order to qualify for a Chapter 7?

My situation is this:

* 80k or more in unsecured debt - cc's and consolidation loans, etc..
* much of this is from the marriage, but this is all post-divorce now - it's all clean now, in my name
* two mortgages, upside down in the house - by at least 40k - not quite enough to wipe out the second mortgage in a Ch 13, from what I understand.
* don't want to keep the house - it's too big and too much upkeep, too many memories
* no other assets
* the one thing that keeps me in a Ch 13 is that I am a high wage earner

I feel terribly guilty for this - but I am burned out at my job. It's entirely too consuming and stressful for a full time single father. My life has changed since the divorce, this job and the mountain of debt are the last pieces of the puzzle.

On the one hand - I see that I can file a Ch 13, try to keep the job for at least 5 years, and then look for something less stressful and closer to home.

But I really question how feasible this approach will be.

What happens if I quit now? And wait 6 months, then go for a CH 7? Can the courts hold me back from a Ch 7 because I *used* to be a high wage earner?

Is it any different if I get laid off?

[justbroke]

Can I quit my job, or somehow managed to get "laid off" in order to qualify for a Chapter 7?

While nothing stops you from quitting your Job, the Trustee could ask a "good faith" question as to why you quit your job. If it was to qualify for Chapter 7, that's a bad faith petition, and the Trustee would see to dismiss. Will the Trustee even ask? Who knows.

What happens if I quit now? And wait 6 months, then go for a CH 7? Can the courts hold me back from a Ch 7 because I *used* to be a high wage earner?

If they determine that you did this in "bad faith" and solely to file Chapter 7, they could file a bad faith dismissal (see above).

Is it any different if I get laid off?

Yes. One is voluntary, the other is not. I will add that people have quit and have qualified and received discharges after quitting their jobs. Whether you will be "caught" is based on too many factors for me to even guess. However, I leave you with the worse case scenario.

[zenbit]

Thank you!

I appreciate the feedback greatly.

And to clarify - I would really see this the other way around, and I mean this very honestly...

It is not that I would quit so as to qualify for a Chapter 7... but rather, the thing keeping me IN this job is the debt load and feeling like I have absolutely no way out.

The real reason I would quit would be to pursue something more aligned to what I want to do in the long term, and to work closer to home where I can be there for my kids more than is possible currently.

In other words - were there no debt and no bankruptcy on the horizon, I am sure I would quit in a heartbeat.

As I write this out, I fully recognize that this may not come off right to a Trustee.

On the one hand - I have nine years in this job, with a steadily increasing salary. That certainly paints one picture.

But on the other hand, the divorce was finalized early 2008, and I have been barely getting by as a single full time father of two ever since... it makes plenty of sense how people tend to change a few things around in their lives post-divorce.

[zenbit]

More...

Now, I find myself wondering too if it would be better to file Ch 13, and deal with the job situation secondarily, and then convert to a Ch 7 if I need to do so at that time?

That may be the better route.

Also - I am wondering - what happens if the Trustee files a bad faith dismissal? Am I just SOL at that point? Or do I wait and refile at a later time?

[rrockinggramma]

with the economic times like they are, going from high wage earner to a lot less would not raise any eyebrows, IMO.

Why not secure another position for less pay, then quit, then file chapter 7?

whatever you decide to do, GL

[justbroke]

Now, I find myself wondering too if it would be better to file Ch 13, and deal with the job situation secondarily, and then convert to a Ch 7 if I need to do so at that time?

If circumstances change, you can always file to modify your confirmed plan, or, if you qualify, convert to a Chapter 7.

Also - I am wondering - what happens if the Trustee files a bad faith dismissal? Am I just SOL at that point? Or do I wait and refile at a later time?

If they file one, then you have to, basically, defend why you didn't file in bad faith. If time has elapsed since changing jobs (prior to filing) the odds are less likely that the Trustee will bust your hops about changing jobs. Of course your offense to a bad faith objection is always, stress, health and family.

While the Trustee may question your motivation, it's pretty hard for them to rebut health, welfare, family and other more important things.

[HHM]

Never quite a job just to file BK, that is stupid.

Now, if you don't like your job, or want another job anyway, that is one thing. But quitting a job to try to get a BK is...well, I already said

[zenbit]

Oh trust me - I am more than ready to move on. This is the third year in a row of making less money than the year before - while being asked to take on more responsibility. The way I see it, this is what they do until people burn out and quit. There is a very strong "up or out" mentality - and only those that make this job their whole life seem to survive in the long run. Just not for me.

[zenbit]

Yes - I should find a job first. Especially because of how this economy is. And trust me - I am more than ready to move on, regardless of BK. This is the third year in a row of making less money than the year before - while being asked to take on more responsibility. The way I see it, this is what they do until people burn out and quit. There is a very strong "up or out" mentality - and only those that make this job their whole life seem to survive in the long run. Just not for me.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Yes - I should find a job first. Especially because of how this economy is. And trust me - I am more than ready to move on, regardless of BK. Yes, but find that other job. You still do not know how it is to live off of next to nothing. This is the third year in a row of making less money than the year before - while being asked to take on more responsibility. Half of something is always better than all of nothing. The way I see it, this is what they do until people burn out and quit. Do you believe this? I am sure they wish more for less. Who does not? If they want you really gone, there are less subtle ways. There is a very strong "up or out" mentality - and only those that make this job their whole life seem to survive in the long run. Not so. I loved and lived my career. In the end, that whole damned building was "downsized". Just not for me. Then start looking now for something you wish to do. Expect less money.

If you wish to be laid off, cut your time back to what you did three years ago and made more money doing it. State if noted to the boss, that it is all you can do in the time allotted and you have a family you must take care of as well. I assume you are in custody of two children from your posts. If he likes you, work lighter but with quality, you will stay. If he does not like this, let him lay you off. Unemployment is better than no money while you look full time for that other job. 'Hub

[car67]

I understand the pressure to perform in a 13 with no love for what your doing to make money..... Rode that bull for 18 months and just finished my 341 hearing which is a conversion from 13 to a 7 Was pretty simple thus far and yes it took a loss of income to do so... I was asked why my income dropped from my business and I plainly answered, " The Economy " People are not spending and people are losing jobs as a result. You know what I feel that you should do what makes you happy. My advice? Hell yea walk away from the job that is miserable and start your life over... Your allowed a chance to do so!!!!!!

[zenbit]

It's good to see the discussion here - helps me see that there really are many sides to this challenge, and that it's not all in my imagination. I feel trapped at times, and then I feel guilty for complaining, because at least I have a job. I don't want to fall into the grass is greener trap.

But I have to tell you - I have lost some folks close to me at a young age, and they weren't sitting there in their final days worrying about which creditors got paid - but they sure were taking a good look at what they had done with their lives on a more meaningful level. After witnessing those transitions, that kind of thing sticks with you, changes you in a way.

I do have residential custody and really want to do right by my kids, and I also know how much they thrive when I am happy too. I think a way through this maze will present itself. I just appreciate hearing all of your insights along the way.

Many thanks!