Questions about Trustree Increasing Payment at 341 Meeing

[momindebt]

We have filed and are awaiting our 341 date. Just curious:

1) How many of you had your monthly payment increased in your Chapter 13 plan?
2) If it was increased, why?
3) And, by how much?

While I know that each of our plans are different and unique, I wanted an idea of what could occur. Thanks so much for the information! The help is greatly appreciated!

[Flying2BK]

Curious about this one myself............

[justbroke]

There is no real answer to this question. It is too subjective, too district specific, too trustee specific, and too circumstances specific.

In cases where the Trustee "asks" that you increase the plan payment, or face an objection to confirmation, is usually because there is an expense that they don't like. The real thing that happens is that the Trustee reviews all your documentation, your schedules and then your Plan. Upon reviewing the schedules, the Trustee determines what they believe you should be paying into the plan.

If your numbers don't match... well, more specifically, if your number is LOWER than their number, they will generally inform you at the 341 Meeting (or shortly thereafter) that you have not committed enough to the Plan and that they will not recommend confirmation.

My plan paid $0 to the unsecured creditors. My payment wasn't increased at the meeting. This has no bearing on some other person's plan, as you already conceded.

If you are asking this question because you are filing pro se, then that could really be a problem. It would be because you either don't understand the local customs and rules, that you included expenses that are not allowed, that you over/under-estimated tax withholdings, that you included an expense for a secured debt that you are surrendering... and a whole host of other things.

[HHM]

Let me put it this way, it is a RARE case that a trustee does not object to something and request a higher payment.

But let's back up and set the context. NOTHING happens at the 341. The 341 is simply a meeting where the trustee asks you questions. No decisions are made there. Within a week or 2 after the meeting the trustee will file some sort of object to your plan. At that point, the real work of a chapter 13 is done. Your attorney will negotiate with the trustee, work out the issues, etc. And it is likely there will be some give and take and your payment WILL increase. If the issues cannot be worked out, then the case goes before the judge. The trustee is NOT the decision maker, he is your adversary. The judge is the decision maker. Think of the trustee like a prosecuting attorney...they will argue against your case, but they don't make the final decision.

[momindebt]

Let me put it this way, it is a RARE case that a trustee does not object to something and request a higher payment.

But let's back up and set the context. NOTHING happens at the 341. The 341 is simply a meeting where the trustee asks you questions. No decisions are made there. Within a week or 2 the trustee will file some sort of object to your plan. At that point, the real work of a chapter 13 is done. Your attorney will negotiate with the trustee, work out the issues, etc. And it is likely there will be some give and take and your payment WILL increase. If the issues cannot be worked out, then the case goes before the judge. The trustee is NOT the decision maker, he is your adversary. The judge is the decision maker. Think of the trustee like a prosecuting attorney...they will argue against your case, but they don't make the final decision.

Thanks for this answer. It was helpful. I'm still curious about what others have experienced that this gives me more information on the process, so thank you. I'm not hiding anything, my budget is high in some area but we can document why that is the case (ie: medical expenses). I was just curious what others have experienced-whether it is what I'll experience or not.

[momofthree]

We didn't have any objections, but we are under median filers and claimed less than IRS standards on all our expenses. We also didn't have expenses such as cell phone, cable tv, or recreation listed....

[enginegirl]

Thanks for this answer. It was helpful. I'm still curious about what others have experienced that this gives me more information on the process, so thank you. I'm not hiding anything, my budget is high in some area but we can document why that is the case (ie: medical expenses). I was just curious what others have experienced-whether it is what I'll experience or not.

My original payment was set to be $450 a month... 1st adjourned conf hearing trustee wanted $1400.00 after 2nd adjourned confirmation hearing she was at $975 and finally I was confirmed at $520 a month....
it was an extremely rough ride and I wish I had known then what I know now! My case was both my atty and the trustee's first case using the Lanning judgment (that is using a look forward not back) ..... this forum not only educated me but, I, in turn was able to educate my atty and she the trustee...

[jange]

It really does depend on your plan. I had a raise and a bonus between filing and the 341, so yea mine payment increased.

confirmed 7/22/10 11 months done!

[jetsfan2010]

very interesting. I had a bonus on my pay that figured in my income, but dont expect that bonus next year. 6 months from now, if my income has (as expected) decreased, would I have to go back to the courts via my attorney to request a lower payment?

[enginegirl]

very interesting. I had a bonus on my pay that figured in my income, but dont expect that bonus next year. 6 months from now, if my income has (as expected) decreased, would I have to go back to the courts via my attorney to request a lower payment?

You can have your atty file an amended plan based on your new income.....

[jetsfan2010]

Thanks enginegirl. My only concern is would the Trustee see me making payment based off the higher income these first five months(though struggling to do so), and not be as favorable to reduce payment

[dh7448]

My only issue was with my entertainment expense. I'm filing without my spouse and the attorney listed 200.00/mo for entertainment for the wife and kids. None for me The trustee didn't think I should be able to do that so she objected. Attorney filed an ameded plan to extend my payments from 36 to 42 months. Trustee seems to have agreed. Confirmation tomorrow! 12/15/2010.

[walkthaplank]

But let's back up and set the context. NOTHING happens at the 341. The 341 is simply a meeting where the trustee asks you questions. No decisions are made there. Within a week or 2 after the meeting the trustee will file some sort of object to your plan.

Unless you live in a district where it DOES happen. California Central District Court in Riverside, 341 happens same day as confirmation hearing. Objections are first brought up at 341, either you agree to the objections, get the trustee counsel to see your way or litigate that afternoon at the confirmation hearing and let the judge decide. My plan payment was doubled at my 341.

Our court does things a little different here

To the OP, like everything in BK, it is district specific. This is one of the reasons a good lawyer is worth the money.

[enginegirl]

Thanks enginegirl. My only concern is would the Trustee see me making payment based off the higher income these first five months(though struggling to do so), and not be as favorable to reduce payment

check the Lanning case "good news for chapt 13" in the stickies.... it is all about the trustee using a forward projection and not backwards..
hope this helps!

[jange]

very interesting. I had a bonus on my pay that figured in my income, but dont expect that bonus next year. 6 months from now, if my income has (as expected) decreased, would I have to go back to the courts via my attorney to request a lower payment?

When you go for the 341 meeting the trustee should ask you if your income changed, you attorney can amend your plan before it is confirmed. also let your attorney know that your income went down.
I get a bonus every year, though the amount is not guaranteed and rarely the same from year to year. No way around it, I couldn't say it was a one time thing, since it was on my previous 6 month paystubs from 2009.