Chapter 13 Blues...

[DYLAN150]

I have not filed a chapter 13, but did see a lawyer sometime back about it. I remember something he said. "He said, I am not afraid to fight the trustee over the numbers, he said, in order for the plan to work, the numbers have to be realistic." Sounds like your numbers may not be realistic.

Please read: Methnerlaw.com success tip: Don't be afraid to fight the trustee:

[nsupanda]

I am not judging anyone . . but something stood out to me . . . . CIGARETTES . . .

I just know 100% that if I were a smoker (and I was for 12 years but quit 7 years ago . . ) I COULD NOT EVER keep smoking and watch my family try to survive off of $50/week for food. Cigarettes are about about $10/pack here . . and well, that's another $70/week for food....

Again, I am not judging your husband . . just saying, if it were me . . I could not be selfish and keep smoking while they eat ramen noodles.

I do wish you the best though.

I understand what you mean... but in all honesty, I got us into this mess with my credit cards. He contributed too, but not as much as me so I feel guilty. He is already giving up a lot of other things, if I take his cigarettes away from him that's just asking too much IMO. Cigarettes here are $5/pk (and that's for name brand Marlboro's). I'm on week #2 of $50 grocery shopping by the way, and so far we have been eating very well. I think that a previous commenter was right, this thread was started by me being in shock. I'm not used to this new lifestyle yet, but I do see how I'm going to do it. It's going to be hard at times, but I am going to be optimistic now.

[Pandora]

The original goal was to keep the house and there was only 1 month of arrears when we filed....it is now caught up, our car was paid off in the plan and now we have several small claims under 200-300 a month and about 3w/balances of 6-9k left. Of course the trustee is getting his %. We can see the claims going down every month on 13data center but electricity, water, sewr etc....keep coming in and we have a pre-teen going into jr. high. Of course the whole school is on a computer now....799.00 for a laptop. Sorry I didn't mean to take away from the op....just venting.

Maximo

I'm still not understanding how you have a $3300 payment if no arrears, taxes, priorities, etc - understand about the car / initial arrears, but to still have to pay out the amount you are to unsecured creditors and live on next to nothing isnt right. Trustee's cant make over 10%, so he's not really running up the total that much in respect to what you're paying back: 60 months @ 3300 is nearly $200K all in. I know you stated your income is high (above 100K) but even so your lawyer should've earned his/her money and got you what you're entitled to receive given you are over median, which is at minimum IRS standards in your area.

Are you on a budget billing cycle for electric? If not - I'd highly recommend it - that way you know what your bill will be every month and it should even itself out during the course of the year.

Water / sewer - do you have low flow capacities installed on shower / toilet ? If not, you can get them or do it yourself using simple materials for pennies. Toilet is easy enough to make low flow; fill up some water bottles (plastic) and place them into the tank so it displaces some of the water that would be used. Same with shower, you can get a rubber gasket that inserts into the shower head, reducing water flow - also limit shower times to 10 minutes (yes..it can be done )

For laundry: wash in cold water only and only wash twice a week (kids can wear their jeans / shorts twice regardless if they say "but i wore those yesterday!" ;) Our kids were told shirts/undergarments get changed every day however jeans/shorts can be worn twice before washing them - it was up to them to break up the days when worn (i.e., worn Monday..wont wear again until Thurs - 2nd pair on Tues get worn Friday). If you dont have one of the HE washers/dryers (we dont & are on well water to boot!) hang clothes outside to dry fully or partially, thereby saving on electric if you must use your dryer.

Also if you have a dishwasher..quit using it every day and start washing by hand (*gasp* yes.. I said it... ) as dishwashers use alot of electricity and water for more than double/triple what it would take to merely wash by hand. Make a mental note to only use the dishwasher on the weekend or something, limiting its use to 2 days a week.

I think I'd be in my lawyers personal space if I were in your shoes...and demand to know why so much is going to unsecured creditors and not even IRS mins to my family.

[Maximo]

The original goal was to keep the house and there was only 1 month of arrears when we filed....it is now caught up, our car was paid off in the plan and now we have several small claims under 200-300 a month and about 3w/balances of 6-9k left. Of course the trustee is getting his %. We can see the claims going down every month on 13data center but electricity, water, sewr etc....keep coming in and we have a pre-teen going into jr. high. Of course the whole school is on a computer now....799.00 for a laptop. Sorry I didn't mean to take away from the op....just venting.

[Kuya]

I am not judging anyone . . but something stood out to me . . . . CIGARETTES . . .

I just know 100% that if I were a smoker (and I was for 12 years but quit 7 years ago . . ) I COULD NOT EVER keep smoking and watch my family try to survive off of $50/week for food. Cigarettes are about about $10/pack here . . and well, that's another $70/week for food....

Again, I am not judging your husband . . just saying, if it were me . . I could not be selfish and keep smoking while they eat ramen noodles.

I do wish you the best though.

[Pandora]

I know how you feel...we are paying 3300 a month and are only 1/2 way done. We live on about $500 a month for a family of 3....it is a living hell! If there were a way out I would take it, life is too short to be tied down like this but I really don't know what to do. Beginning July 1 we are taking a 9% pay cut too! I know 5 years doesn't sound like a long time, but it is. Good luck

Holy buckets of dog doo! You should be allowed at MINIMUM the IRS Standards and $500 for 3 people is unheard of! Are you trying to keep assets? house? owe taxes? arrears on mortgage? You have to have something of the above in order to have your payment that high. Now is the time to really think about what it is you're trying to accomplish in your ch. 13 plan; if you're paying most of that due to arrears on the house... then let the damn house go and rent one for the time being.

Your plan should've never been confirmed if you're living well below poverty level in order to pay your Ch. 13 plan. Your attorney and trustee should be shot on sight for agreeing to such a thing.

[buffetbuster]

nsupanda - We met with our lawyer today to do our credit counceling and I brought up your situation to him. He suggested you get another lawyer to look over your plan. He said your lawyer might not have your best interest at heart.

[lillymarlene]

I am only 7/48 payments in, but I agree with Flamingo:

What you are feeling is the aftershock of living beyond your means prior to filing and learning to have to let that former lifestyle go and budget to the bone.

This is tough but doable. I've never been so suprised and I'm still learning there are so many things I don't really need. I've been considering every little thing. Even grocery shopping trips take 2x as long:-)

[IamOld]

I know how you feel...we are paying 3300 a month and are only 1/2 way done. We live on about $500 a month for a family of 3....it is a living hell! If there were a way out I would take it, life is too short to be tied down like this but I really don't know what to do. Beginning July 1 we are taking a 9% pay cut too! I know 5 years doesn't sound like a long time, but it is. Good luck

Oh my God! How are you paying 3300/month??? And with the 9% cut, shouldn't your payment get cut???

[Maximo]

I know how you feel...we are paying 3300 a month and are only 1/2 way done. We live on about $500 a month for a family of 3....it is a living hell! If there were a way out I would take it, life is too short to be tied down like this but I really don't know what to do. Beginning July 1 we are taking a 9% pay cut too! I know 5 years doesn't sound like a long time, but it is. Good luck

[Cristo]

Panda,

I'm very concerned about your plan. Like others have said, if you go into a bad plan you will have a very hard time making it. Your lawyer sounds terrible. 83% payback of your debt? That is crazy. Please do yourself a favor and get another consultation with a new lawyer. I had to change lawyers in my case after I had almost paid off the first one because I realized he was not working for my best interest, and he only had me in a 25% payback plan. When I told him I could not afford it he just said I would have to do it "somehow". Well, my new lawyer got me into a plan paying back less than 5%.

You should be able to calculate your income yourself leaving out the bonus. Does it match what they put down? Your lawyer should be working to get you the lowest payment possible. You would be suprised at how many don't. I read some of your past posts about the paralegal asking you to explain bank deposits over the last few years etc, this is making me even more concerned as I do not understand how this could possibly be necessary. I'm not trying to make things worse for you but if you filed recently I think you could refile your schedules.

If you post details of the means test we could probably help you.

[rustymich]

Do you have a lot of assets your trying to keep to be in the 13?PS Your lawyer sounds like a wimp push him your paying them not the other way around,I really had to do alot of the work for mine he attmpted to get me in a 13-I refused and told him he was crazy filed 7 no asset and discharged,your the only one that cares the most work them hard and Good luck

[Pandora]

I think you need to sit down with your lawyer and really go over everything in detail. If you arent even close to what the IRS allowances are... your Ch. 13 Trustee will not approve your plan as it wont be feasible. A family of 3 cannot live on $50 a week in groceries; we're a family of 3 and we do $500-600 a month on groceries and even then it can get tight, so unless you're one of those "extreme couponing" mom's that can get $2K of groceries for $20.......... ??

As the others have stated, Ch. 13 isnt meant to be punitive and yours is extremely punishing. Did you happen to interview other lawyers before settling with this one? See if you cannot pull your current 13 and wait until your bonuses come off the look back (although it should be forward looking if using Lanning I believe) - then refile. Better yet, see if you cannot file Ch. 7 - remember means test is only part of the equation... DMI is the other.

Your attorney should have NEVER filed your paperwork without going over the numbers with you in detail BEFOREHAND - not after everything was filed.

[Flamingo]

I don't know, I looked at all the numbers they presented and everything looked right. I just don't know... The only good thing is my mom is my landlord and hopefully she can help me out with that. That is my only hope.

We don't have any fixed costs... and yes, $50 per week for my little family of 3? We'll be eating raman noodles and beans. What really makes me mad, and I'm sure I'll get over it soon, is that if I didn't work we could file Chapter 7 and get away with paying nothing back. Instead, we are going to be paying over $65k in five years (83% of out total debt). I know a lot of people who don't work, who have racked up tons of money on credit cards like I have, and they really have no punishment at all for it. Alternatively, my family will have to suffer through the next 5 years, all because we work for a living. It's like we're being punished for having a job. I know I shouldn't think this way, but right now, I am.

What you are feeling is the aftershock of living beyond your means prior to filing and learning to have to let that former lifestyle go and budget to the bone. It's a shock; it's a shock that hits most people when they realize they just cannot do what they did before while in a Chapter 13. Chapter 13 is the best budget teacher in the world and after a few years in it, you will never want to look at a credit card again and realize what I am saying. There are pros and cons to filing both a Chapter 7 and a Chapter 13, if you have to file a Chapter 13 due to your financial situation and your income, it is not the end of the world - you have your jobs, probably health insurance through one of your employers, a house or other assets, just to name a few pluses.

I kniow how you feel because I was once there trying to figure out how we were going to do it and get through the next 5 years. We did it, kept our house and 10 years later (we filed in 2/01), it's like nothing happened and we have learned to control our money and financial situation. You need to try not to focus too much on the right now and look long-term. And learn to become a budget master of your finances, shop bulk, shop discount and make that goal of Disney World in 5 years...

[keepsmiling]

OP, other posters have posted their income and their expenses here and received help in "fixing" the numbers. You might want to do the same.
No point in going into a 13 that's doomed from the start. That doesn't work out well for anyone.