Chase didn't know we were BK??? Plus conv. from 7 to 13 is final.

[alorth]

I have read only one or two cases ever where a Chapter 13 debtor was forced to surrender their home because it was too much (in order to achieve confirmation). The primary residence is considered "necessary for the effective reorganization of the debtor" in a Chapter 13. Judges routinely confirm plans over the objection of the Trustee(s) in these cases. (Of course, the residence can't be over 31% -- or so -- of your gross income; otherwise, it's not good faith to keep such a payment!)

The problem you may have is not with the residence and mortgage, but with the individual expenses that may be outside the norm. The only one that the Trustee might attack is the kindergarten expense. However, if you both work, this may be considered nothing more than "daycare" or "childcare" services. It will truly depend on how much of a fight the Trustee wants to be in and how wiling you and your attorney are willing to fight for confirmation.

What do you mean that the Chapter 13 Trustee is referencing the motion to dismiss?

Well, our 7 didn't go through mainly because of the high income....yet at $2400/month for our mortgage, we are only at about 24% of gross income for housing expenditure. Apparently, that doesn't matter a lick....they are paying more attention to the IRS housing standard for a family of 3 in this county, which is just under $1000/month.

To be honest, my parents live in a nice ranch home in a neighborhood at about $800/month mortgage payment, and I'd be fine with that, but nobody will finance us to BUY something like that (of course) with our credit situation, even though it would literally solve our problems. Instead we are stuck looking for something to rent as our only option.

We have cut back on all expenses to under the IRS standards, including car payments, EXCEPT my daughter's tuition for starting Catholic School in the fall.

As for my health.....its no better. And the catch 22 is that even if I DID manage to get a job, all the income will be going into the Plan, which would probably still be under 100%, so there would be no benefit in terms of the BK situation. AND my daughter would be with MORE daycare, instead of with a parent during all the times she isn't in school.

A lot of this is fear of what may happen....or according to my atty., fear of what is very likely to happen....in terms of being ordered to leave the house if we want our Plan confirmed, but the one HOPE is that the order hasn't actually be given yet, and its not 100% certain that it will....just supposedly very likely.

I can pray that I'm worrying about all of this for nothing. I should get an idea at the Meeting of Creditors with the 13 TT which comes in a few more weeks.

[alorth]

So there were the problems with the mortgage, and the schooling, and also they originally thought your health care costs were too high (!)
What was the latest thought from the tt on the health part? How can they object to that anyway, if you can show costs?

Appreciate your comments on the situation, smiling. This has seemingly dragged on for a long time, with an even longer time to come. The word I'm getting is that my health long term hinges on a surgery that my insurance won't cover. And the surgery only improves my long term prospects, but doesn't cure what really ails me. It runs about $25K. Back in the day, we used to have credit cards(plural) with more than that amount of open and available credit!.....until the new "consumer protection laws" came down, and the CC's started tightening everything up approx. 2-3 years ago....whenever it was,l and dried up all of our available credit. Too bad I didn't know I needed this surgery back then when I could have just put it on the plastic! THEN go BK if it was gonna happen. But fate didn't work out that way. Its possible we can take out a 401k loan from ourselves after we pay off the ones we currently have (which we took to try and stave off BK) to pay for the surgery, but that's up to us winning that argument in court, because otherwise, the 13 TT wants the extra money from the 401k loan payments when the loans end in about a year to go to unsecured creditors in The Plan. Damn it all sounds so convoluted it really is hard to explain all the ins and outs of our case.

[alorth]

Do you have money after paying your mort? For your utilitys and food? What about your cars do you have payments maybe you could sell one or get a lower payment or buy a older car of coarse taking a chance there.

In short, we are at about a break even point. Very little, if any DMI (DISPOSABLE Monthly Income) according to our very realistic schedules to pay our unsecured creditors, BUT apparently enough where we can be in 13 instead of 7. We both drive older used cars....the newest of the 2 is a 2009 Hyundai getting near 60,000 miles. The older is a 2005 Chrysler approaching 100k miles. The only area we haven't cut is our daughter's schooling. We've taken a harder stance on that....and if our 7 had been approved, we could afford it at about that "break even" mark, while staying in this house, and just go on living our life. Lord knows the Banks certainly got their POUNDS of flesh in interest rates over the years, not to mention the tax write-offs from our defaults, hastened by THEIR changing of the Rules of the Game. No, we wouldn't be saving anything much, so maybe that's a set up to fail, but if you figure the tax returns yearly would go into savings, then maybe its not so crazy. But that's all neither here nor there anymore, since the 7 WAS converted to 13, and we are on a different ride now. If the 13 TT and The Judge allows us to pay what we have submitted to them as our Plan payment, or something close to that, and lets us stay in our home, we will make it. I know we will. But if they come back demanding all sorts of additional changes, demand that we leave our home, demand that our child not attend Catholic School, etc., all so that some Banks....or JDBs, or whomever the unsecured creditors are now, can bleed us dry as possible, well I can't say that we'll ever come to an agreeable Plan, and I do hate the thought of heading back into the abyss of a stay-less existence.