Chase didn't know we were BK??? Plus conv. from 7 to 13 is final.

[alorth]

Update: We filed Ch 7 back in Sept. 2011. UST Motion to Dismiss under 707(b). In response, we finally converted to 13 last month (February), and haven't even made our 1st payment yet.

In all of the back and forth with the UST while going for the 7, he stated we should be in a home with a payment no more than $1500/month going forward....even in a 13 to make a workable plan. Our current payment is $2400 and is up to date. We REALLY don't want to move and put ourselves in the precarious position of becoming renters. There are very few suitable rental properties in our area, other than older, seedy apt. complexes. Not going to do that. Very few homes for rent. Most of what is available is college student housing near the local Universities....so again, not suitable. We would just like to find a smaller ranch home, or even a condo, to rent, and its been impossible. There just aren't any around here, and I've gone through the paper, craigs list, local realtors, rent.com, etc.

A local realtor suggested we contact Chase (who holds our Mortgage) and talk to them about our options.

Come to find out, they don't even have us listed as under BK!!

Oops! So I let the cat out of the bag to them, or what? They were notified in the original creditor mailing! I see them on the list. But somehow it didn't get into their system? How?

The lady I talk to says that now that they know, we won't be able to access our mortgage online anymore, or make payments through the Branch, or through the regular method....and that all payments would have to go through their BK dept.?

I don't get it. I told her....Look, we are current! We just want to stay and keep the house, and DO NOT want to foreclose! Can't you help us?

Nope. Not gonna help us. Not interested in helping us even though we are current. Instead, they just want to wait and see what happens, and get all our BK info into their system.

IF the Court forces us to give this place up, they will essentially be forcing foreclosure, and a very undesirous housing situation will be upon us.

Do we stop making payments in prep for that happening, so we have some money to move, and for security deposits and whatnot?

To be honest, at this point I am stressed out of my mind. The uncertainty of the Plan, of what will happen to this house, of where we will be living in 6 months....its all nearly too much.

And everything moves so slowly. Have to go through ANOTHER 341 in a month. THEN wait another month for the plan confirmation hearing. Then wait 2 more months for any creditor objections, or to see who is going to file for payment.

And on top of it all, a different Judge took over the dockett and our atty. is scared of him....and also tells us we got the worse of the 2 13 TTs. He keeps telling us how unlucky we are.

I've had it. I truly have had it.

It really seems like since the beginning of this whole process almost 2 years ago....I mean the BEGINNING, where we even started contemplating BK....I have made the wrong decisions, and can't seem to get the right local guidance. Yes, the Board here has been great, but it only goes so far.

I am just literally nauseous over my life right now. Its getting harder and harder to get out of bed every morning. Just don't know where to turn next, and afraid to make any move at all. The fight feels gone.

[keepsmiling]

Sorry to hear about all of your problems continuing. I know it's been difficult all along. How much dmi did the tt decide that you have? Is he allowing your tuition payments? I know that was an issue.

Re Chase... I guess it takes awhile for all the paper shufflers to figure out what's going on. But regardless of which dept gets your payment, it should work out ok, if you can somehow afford to keep living there.

I was wondering if your tt was going to object to your high house payment. This is something we don't hear about too often. There was a large family that had to do major battle with their rental cost- but she had a boatload of kids and could justify needing more room. What does your attorney think of this? has he come across this before? Isn't Michigan's housing market quite depressed right now? I'm a little surprised to hear that there is nothing available in your price range.

Perhaps there are some other ways to go about renting. Put a "wanted" ad out there. Go to houses with For Sale Signs and leave notes indicating your desire to rent. I have friends who purchased their homes (in a seller's market) by leaving notes in the neighborhoods they wanted to be in.

Hang in there, no giving up yet. Others will be along with advice I'm sure.

[catleg]

That sounds like bullshit.
The UST doesn't decide your case, take it to the judge if you have to.
Chapter 13 is supposed to let you keep assets and protect secured lenders at the expense of unsecureds.
If your mortgage is federally guaranteed, you are preventing a loss to the government, this is a good thing , argue it.
A lot of ch13 attorneys are pussys, if you don't have a fighter you may have to force his hand.

P.S. When in doubt, drag it out. You can dismiss the 13, stop paying the mortgage, wait for all the shit to start piling up again then file a 13 again. But don't be forced into anything. Just keep saying No.

[alorth]

Sorry to hear about all of your problems continuing. I know it's been difficult all along. How much dmi did the tt decide that you have? Is he allowing your tuition payments? I know that was an issue.

Re Chase... I guess it takes awhile for all the paper shufflers to figure out what's going on. But regardless of which dept gets your payment, it should work out ok, if you can somehow afford to keep living there.

I was wondering if your tt was going to object to your high house payment. This is something we don't hear about too often. There was a large family that had to do major battle with their rental cost- but she had a boatload of kids and could justify needing more room. What does your attorney think of this? has he come across this before? Isn't Michigan's housing market quite depressed right now? I'm a little surprised to hear that there is nothing available in your price range.

Perhaps there are some other ways to go about renting. Put a "wanted" ad out there. Go to houses with For Sale Signs and leave notes indicating your desire to rent. I have friends who purchased their homes (in a seller's market) by leaving notes in the neighborhoods they wanted to be in.

Hang in there, no giving up yet. Others will be along with advice I'm sure.

Well....after the conversion was Ordered, we met with our atty. and formulated our Plan based on I and J. The Plan we sent is based on us staying in the house, and also paying my daughter's tuition for kindergarten coming this year. The cars are in the Plan, too. The payment is about $550/month.

I seriously doubt that it will get confirmed, and so does the atty. But we started "low" so to speak.

So we are waiting for the Meeting of Creditors later this month, and also to get a response from the 13 TT about our Plan.

Maybe I'll get surprised, and the Plan will somehow be accepted, but our atty. doesn't seem to think so. So I feel like I'm just waiting for MORE conflict.

The Rental situation around here is just CRAZY. Basically no single family homes. Yes, there are many for sale...TONS in fact, and for good prices. I wish we had the credit to buy! LOL. But our rental options are just basically not options at all. Even the one place that has decent rental condos at $1300/month says they probably won't accept us because of the BK. Craigs List has tons of student housing ready in August....we have a huge University here. But nothing really for a single family! I check other small cities in other states and see plenty available. It just must be something about this place. : (

[alorth]

And when I say we started "low" with our Plan....I mean, we started with our actual DMI based on what the numbers say and based on reasonable schedules, with our regular $2400/mo house payment and my daughter's tuition being paid.

It also figures the car payments and interest being squashed down in the Plan. Because before the BK, the 2 cars were costing us $485/mo total. In the 13 Plan, the Payment of around $550 includes those cars, but at smaller amounts, with the rest going to the Atty., the TT, and the unsecured creditors.

So we are actually only spending about $65 more than we were before the Plan. The first payment is due at the end of the month. If it gets confirmed by some miracle, I can live with it. But it just seems very unlikely if the 13 TT is referencing the UST's original Motion to Dismiss our CH 7.

[justbroke]

I have read only one or two cases ever where a Chapter 13 debtor was forced to surrender their home because it was too much (in order to achieve confirmation). The primary residence is considered "necessary for the effective reorganization of the debtor" in a Chapter 13. Judges routinely confirm plans over the objection of the Trustee(s) in these cases. (Of course, the residence can't be over 31% -- or so -- of your gross income; otherwise, it's not good faith to keep such a payment!)

The problem you may have is not with the residence and mortgage, but with the individual expenses that may be outside the norm. The only one that the Trustee might attack is the kindergarten expense. However, if you both work, this may be considered nothing more than "daycare" or "childcare" services. It will truly depend on how much of a fight the Trustee wants to be in and how wiling you and your attorney are willing to fight for confirmation.

What do you mean that the Chapter 13 Trustee is referencing the motion to dismiss?

[keepsmiling]

IIRC, Alorth is not currently working and has some medical issues.
Alorth, could you possibly claim that you are not physically up for doing the childcare yourself? Or that you spend so much time at drs that you need the childcare?

[catleg]

It sounds to me like you're a prime candidate for one of the proposed "rent back your foreclosed house" type programs.
I don't know if they ever got those off the ground.
From what you describe, tons of houses for sale, no rentals -> investors not interested, prices too high.

[karm43]

Good advice

[karm43]

Do you have money after paying your mort? For your utilitys and food? What about your cars do you have payments maybe you could sell one or get a lower payment or buy a older car of coarse taking a chance there.

[keepsmiling]

If the tt isn't going to let him take the 2400 for a mtg payment, he's certainly not going to let him pay it in rent.
Besides which it will cost him his tax deductions.
Kinda chancy, taking a guess on how much the bank would charge for rent IF they'd even do it.
Karm, if you check back you will see that there is significant income, which is why this is heading towards a 13. OP has high mortgage and high tuition pays. Originally was not willing to change either of those, but looks like he's coming around to some acceptance that SOMETHING has to give.

[NoMoreCards]

I am not sure where th OP lives, however there are all kinds of rentals in Oakland, Livingston county of Michigan. I assume near one of our large Universities, however perhaps drive 20 - 30 miniutes away and you will find several nice places.
Best of luck.

[keepsmiling]

I just dug this up... had somehow missed it first time around... but it gives more background to the situation. In fact, it's VERY interesting, and perhaps unusual:

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?74843-7-about-to-get-dismissed.....Converting-to-13....Question-about-House&p=555226#post555226

My bad, in case anyone is still up and read this. Dh misunderstood about cramdowns on primary residences. They were SUPPOSED to be part of TARP but the vote failed. And apparently at one time judges could force one. But now they are only applicable to vacation homes and income properties.

[keepsmiling]

So there were the problems with the mortgage, and the schooling, and also they originally thought your health care costs were too high (!)
What was the latest thought from the tt on the health part? How can they object to that anyway, if you can show costs?

[alorth]

I am not sure where th OP lives, however there are all kinds of rentals in Oakland, Livingston county of Michigan. I assume near one of our large Universities, however perhaps drive 20 - 30 miniutes away and you will find several nice places.
Best of luck.

No, I don't live anywhere near metro Detroit. Other side of the state. And also not near Grand Rapids, where there are also plentiful rental properties available based on my search.

I have talked to a few more realtors in my area, and they all say the same thing....there just aren't any rental HOUSES out there in family neighborhoods, or the surrounding small towns....only in the college neighborhoods/student ghettoes near Western Michigan University. It seems to be an issue with this particular area.....Kalamazoo/Battle Creek. Nothing for rent (except apartments), but an over-abundance of affordable homes for sale....but of course we have no credit, and not enough cash for a down pmt on a land contract. Moving out of this area is not an option because of the wife's employment.