Plan confirmed got a few question

[highnndry]

Those who remember me I'm back but for others here's a snapshot. I filed Ch-13 on my own and the Plan just got approved. I only have unsecured debt and no asset, and have back taxes from IRS and State.

I just checked the National Data center and it says that "% of claim to be paid" for unsecured is 3% and for IRS and State 100%.

Q1. Can I ask the Trustee to pay the IRS and State first before they pay anything to the Unsecured creditors?
Q2. What if IRS have additional claims? They haven't confirmed yet?
Q3. I'm trying to not pay any to the unsecured creditors, any other suggestions. Most of them are junk debt buyers who filed multiple claims?

For example, CapOne filed a claim and then two other junk debt collectors filed claim with higher amounts. What can I do in this situation? Can I let the Trustee know that I do not owe any money to these junk debt buyers?

Thanks in advance.

[SMinGA2]

I know you can file an objection to claims - but do not know the process.

[justbroke]

Q1. Can I ask the Trustee to pay the IRS and State first before they pay anything to the Unsecured creditors?

Well, you "could" 'ask, but the Trustee gets to pay things the way THEY want to pay things. Some Trustees will pay the unsecured creditors $1.00 a month until the end and then make sure they get at least their percentage. Others may pay some of the smaller unsecured creditors first. It's up to the Trustee to determine how to distribute funds. The IRS and State are "priority" creditors so should generally be paid quicker, but that's not always the way each Chapter 13 Standing Trustee operates.

Q2. What if IRS have additional claims? They haven't confirmed yet?

What additional claims would these be? The IRS can only file a claim for what is owed at the time of filing. It is split into "priority" and "general" unsecured claims.

Q3. I'm trying to not pay any to the unsecured creditors, any other suggestions. Most of them are junk debt buyers who filed multiple claims?

You would need to object to the claims. Generally you would do this BEFORE confirmation. This is known as "claims policing" and it is the job of the Trustee and the Debtor to police the claims. If a creditor does not have a legitimate claim, then you should object to the claim. You need a reason though. Simply saying that they produced no "signed contract" is not enough since a creditors claim enjoys "prima facie" evidence of a claim. In other words, their statement of a claim is evidence that you actually owe them.

As for JDBs in Chapter 13s, some of them will respond to objections to their claims by sending 6 months of billing statements (the actual type that were mailed to you) as evidence that they have "business records" that would sustain their claim. There are a few that will bow down real quickly from just a mere objection because it's not worth the money to respond.

Higher amounts just means that they have other "contractual" fees that they can add to the claim. You would need to see your credit agreement to determine if the fees are legitimate. Generally, attorney fees and collection fees are in fact enumerated in the credit agreements so they are legitimate charges. So long as the fees didn't come post-petition.'

Are you pro se? If so, you need to learn, quickly, about how to object to claims and the process (procedures) around it.

[catleg]

As long as you complete your plan there's no reason to worry about the particulars of the unsecured claims, unless you hit the lottery or get a big inheritance.
It's probably best to just ignore it and not stir up a hornet's nest. Certainly late-filed claims should be objected to, however.

[justbroke]

I like hornets. I particularly like removing their stingers. I am on the opinion that reducing the number of claims to "rightful" claims is better in the long run. That is, that claims should be accurate and we should do everything to hold creditors accountable when they file bogus or incorrect claims. Otherwise the JDBs will pump up the balances. In a 0% plan, it may not mean so much; but in a 100% plan, it means all the difference.

[walkthaplank]

Ultimately the trustee is going to pay according to whatever formula they operate on. Mine paid my back property taxes before he paid anything else even though in our plan it was proposed to have the property taxes spread out over the life of the plan. In reality it doesn't really matter to you unless you have to bail out of your CH13 before they are paid off. The only thing that matters to you in the process is that you make your payment in a timely manner and follow the rules of the court order confirming your plan.

As to bogus claims, it is up to you (and your attorney) to object to them and make them prove their claim is legitimate. You should be able to see the claim they filed on PACER. If they are all the same claim then you need to get in there challenge them. Are they separate claims or are they a reassignment of claims? I had several claims that changed hands during my plan, the amounts didn't change in our circumstances though.

[justbroke]

My Plan had things paid a very particular way at a certain rate. The Trustee didn't use my Plan's schedule at all!

[highnndry]

Been waiting to talk to the trustee (staff attorney who handles my bk) but she is on vacation since I made this post. I'll talk to her and see what she says about paying the IRS and State first before paying any unsecured creditors.

Also I think I'll file blank disputes to the junk debt buyers and see what happens. Don't the junk debt buyer have to show how much they bought the debt for and claim that amount? Doing some research on the net and lets see what I can dig up.

All help are greatly appreciated, thanks a lot you guys.

[highnndry]

Also which creditors are ch 13 friendly? Please don't judge, if you read my prior post you would know the reason for my filing. The trustee told me to contact her before taking up new credit; I'm a contractor and have to travel for my job so I need to rent hotel room and car which is the reason for new credit.

[katztoo]

Mine paid my secured debt first. Taxes, Cars, appliance store in that order. They then started on the unsecured debt. About the new credit... I was told I couldn't. I think your lawyer would have to file with the court for you to apply for credit. Most trustees are not sympathetic with reasons for new debt.

[justbroke]

Also I think I'll file blank disputes to the junk debt buyers and see what happens. Don't the junk debt buyer have to show how much they bought the debt for and claim that amount? Doing some research on the net and lets see what I can dig up.

Please don't file "junk" and "frivolous" objections to claims! These could come back to bite you if the Judge decides that you're just filing frivolous objections and gives you a nice Rule 11 (FRBP 9011) Sanction.

Claims 101. The filing of a claim enjoys prima facie evidence of debt owed to the creditor (period).

Junk debt buyers do not need to show how much they bought the debt for. It's a business and they are entitled to the entire amount of the claim. Also, don't use the internet as your research tool taking advice from strangers... myself included. You have to understand the Federal Bankruptcy system, the Federal Bankruptcy Rules of Procedure (FRBP), the Federal Rules of Evidence and the local rules when it comes to contested matters (litigation).

When I say object to claims that are invalid, I mean ones that you can actually demonstrate are wrong or that the claimant is not a creditor (which is a requirement to get a claim actually deemed disallowed). What you could do, is that if the creditor attaches a document to the Form 10 (B10 - Claim) that is nothing more than a re-statement of the Form 10 with no real information, then you could object that they are not the creditor since they showed that they do not have an assignment attached. Some of them will go away, at that point, and others will file an amended Form 10 with the assignment.

[highnndry]

Thank you justBroke for the info. I'm not filing frivolous objections to the claims, as I mentioned earlier in my post there are multiple claimnants for the same debt that has been filed with slightly different amounts. How do I know what the correct amount should be without looking at the details? What the proper fees and interest should be? I mean the amount can't be double the original loan, can it? If so, I need to see the detail.

How do I know that the junk debt buyer didn't resell the accounts to someone else and still collecting here, these things happens all the time. So again asking to see proper documents, as I have not signed any contracts with them, is not frivolous.

[justbroke]

Well, you would need to file objections to the duplicates. As for the original one, from the original creditor, it gets more difficult since they can "prove" that you used the card by showing their regular business records. You can't just say "I don't understand the amount" or "How did they reach that value". You would need an "actionable" claim that something is awry. Such as, the cardholder agreement includes no provision for the inclusion of attorney fees. (Which would be hard to believe with most credit card issuers.)

In your prior (first) email, you only write that the JDBs filed "multiple" claims. I have JDBs that filed multiple claims in my bankruptcy, but for different accounts... not the same account/creditor. That's why I asked that you be careful with frivolous objections that they have no claim.

The claims process was meant to be simple and easy and not to cause litigation. This is why the court allows claims to be filed online by any creditor... without an attorney.

Unless you're in a 100% plan or you have debt limit issues (11 USC 109(e)), it is not necessary to get into this filing objections to every claim so that "you" can understand how the claim amount was reached. I would only object where there is a legitimate claim that the claimant is not a creditor (has no standing to file a claim). As I wrote earlier, most of these JDBs will just send 6-12 months of statements when challenged and then you'll need to prove something more than just "I don't know how they reached the balance".

(Trust that I'm not trying to discourage you. I filed objections to half of the claims in my case and all but one was sustained!)