Debtors Meeting Before Our 341

[Sammie]

Hi Everyone!

We just received a letter in the mail today from the BK Court telling us that there is a mandatory debtors meeting 2 hrs. before our Trustee meeting next month. It did not mention anything about money or if we are required to pay for the course.

I was just wondering if any of you had to go to this course? the letter said it is required before proceeding with Ch 13? It also said that by not attending our BK would not be discharged. Thank you. sammie

[LadyInTheRed]

It sounds like the financial management course that is required after filing. But, Federal Bankruptcy Rules require that you take the class before your last plan payment, not at your 341. Your case can be dismissed if you don't take the class and file a certificate confirming that you took it before the last plan payment. It is possible your court has local rules that require you to take it earlier, but this would be the first time I've heard of an earlier requirement in a Chap 13. There are Chap 13 Trustees who offer the course at the courthouse, but I don't think the debtors are required to take that course. Are you sure the letter is from the court and not made to look like it's from the court? It could be a course provider using misleading advertising to get you to take their course.

If you have any doubt about the validity of the notice, check with your attorney.

[kawh]

I read elsewhere in this forum that one person attended a meeting held by a trustee, and it sounded like an orientation of some sort, and to clarify what documents were going to be requested at the official 341. Sorry I can't remember the title of that thread, but I seriously doubt the trustee would be holding a class.

[Sammie]

LIR/KAWH thank you for your responses. This is the letter we received today

United States Bankruptcy Court
E. District of NC

[B]You ARE HEREBY INSTRUCTED to attend the Ch. 13 Debtor Education Class (held prior to you 341 Meeting of Creditors as follows:

Date Wed., Sept. 12, 2012
Time 9:00 a.m.
Place Meeting room xxx at Court house, city & State

This Chapter 13 Debtor Education class is mandatory for all Ch. 13 debtors Failure to attend may have an adverse effect on the administration of your case. Your Meeting of Creditors may not be held until you have attended this class.

After the meeting you will go directly to your scheduled time for you 341 Meeting with the Trustee.

Before your last payment in 36 mos. you must file a Certification that you attended this meeting before you are discharged.

signed

Court Clerk

[AngelinaCat]

We had a telephonic hearing a week before our scheduled 341. We were in attendance with our attorney present in her office, and one of the trustee's clerks. We were sworn in just as though we were attending the real thing. We finally figured out that our trustee, or district likes to conduct a 'Dress Rehearsal' so that if any problems arise, they could be fixed before the real meeting.

It sounds like you are going to be having something similar. We were asked all the questions that would be asked at the 'real' 341. Everything worked out well.

I should add that we were an Asset Case Ch7.

Good luck!

[lillymarlene]

Just before my 341 December 2010, I received a letter from my attorney that I hadn't yet taken the second part of the debtor's course, and that I should do so immediately. I didn't know and I thought that everyone must have to do this before the "big" meeting. So, I went online and finished the second half.

[AngelinaCat]

We took our pre-filing course well before filing. No mention of the second course was made at our telephonic 'Dress Rehearsal'. But it was mentioned at our actual 341, that we had 45 days to take the course. We did so that very afternoon once we got home.

[kornellred]

This is all very strange. You must get mandatory pre-filing credit counseling for sure. Nowhere is it stipulated that the financial management course must be completed before the 341 meeting. That must be something new, only applicable in certain states or districts, and can only be for the purpose of streamlining the overall Chapter 13 process. Around my area, you cannot get a Chapter 13 discharge without taking the financial management course, but the time requirement for completion of the course is prior to the last payment in your plan.

[ValleYum]

NC and AL are 2 states not 'governed' by the UST - they have BK Administrators. I wonder if this has anything to do with that?

My daddy plays a weekly golf game with one of the AL Chapter 13 trustees; maybe I will have him ask him about this. LOL Now I am curious.

[Sammie]

Thank you for all your replies.

I spoke with my Attorney's office this morning, and yes, this is a mandatory, debtor's education class. We will not be able to proceed with the Trustee's meeting later that morning without going to it. We are also allowed to make our payments to the Trustee by personal check. sammie

[LadyInTheRed]

It must be a local rule that requires you to take the course at the courthouse and before your 341. Do you mind telling us what district of NC you are in?

[Sammie]

Not at all LIR we are in the Pitt County District in Eastern, NC. I will certainly give a full report of that morning. From what I understand the Debtor's Meeting will discuss what our financial goals are going to be & the reasons we are filing for BK 13 in the first place.

[LadyInTheRed]

Well, if your attorney says you have to go, you should go.

But, I find it odd. I have searched the court's website and can't find anything in the local rules, general orders or anywhere else that says you have to take the class offered at the court or that you have to take it before the 341.

The only thing I can find regarding the class is in the pro se guide:

Debtor Education/Financial Management Certificate: All individual debtors, except those filing chapter 12, are required to attend a financial management course, or debtor education, after the filing of your petition. Once you have completed a financial management course, you should receive a certificate verifying completion, which must be filed with the court. You cannot receive your discharge until the court receives the financial management certificate.

Chapter 13 debtors are provided the opportunity to attend a debtor education class, free of charge, prior to their 341 meeting of creditors.

http://www.nceb.uscourts.gov/WebHelp_Pro/ProSeGuide/!SSL!/WebHelp/ProSeGuide.htm

While it is convenient to take advantage of the course, if it was actually required that you take that course instead of another, I woud think the pro se guide would say it is required, not that they provide the opportunity to attend. The Eastern District Bankruptcy Administrator even has a list of authorized providers of the course on its website: http://www.nceba.uscourts.gov/Forms/fmlist.pdf. Why would they have a list of authorized providers if you have to take the class that is provided by the court?

Maybe this is just one of those things that nobody knows unless they are familiar with the court's procedures.

[keepsmiling]

This could be a good thing. It could wind up being that in person support group that so many of us are looking for. A nice supplement to all the wonderful folks here.
Looking forward to your report, Sammie!

[Sammie]

[B]LIR that was very sweet and nice of you to go to the trouble of looking that up. After telling my husband what every one said here, he wanted to stop by the Attorney's Office this morning with the letter. KS that is exactly what they said, that all the people that are filing Ch. 13 that morning/afternoon are required to listen to an hr. talk about what to expect during and after a Ch. 13. Our Attorney will be with us.

I hope that a month from today you all will be laughing at me & saying "ha ha ha told you it was easy". I was shaking like a leaf speaking to our Attorney's Paralegal, & she said "girl, what you shakin' for it's nothing". I asked her if she wouldn't mind going in my place. Everyone laughed but me.

As always, thank you everyone for all of the support you give. sammie