My Repayment plan is almost as much as before I filed

[teribesse]

Please help. Before I filed for bankruptcy. My payments to creditors were approx. $1950. My repayment plan is going to be between $1700-$1800 per month. The court is not allowing some of my monthly expenses such as personal care items and auto ownerships costs as well as miscellanoues items which totals $325. Have I done the wrong thing? Should I just have my case dismissed and deal with creditors on my own??? Please help.

[Jman30]

Please help. Before I filed for bankruptcy. My payments to creditors were approx. $1950. My repayment plan is going to be between $1700-$1800 per month. The court is not allowing some of my monthly expenses such as personal care items and auto ownerships costs as well as miscellanoues items which totals $325. Have I done the wrong thing? Should I just have my case dismissed and deal with creditors on my own??? Please help.

First off, What is your total debt? What % are you paying back?

Second of all, you have remember....your Chapter 13 payment is NOT including interest. All that stops at the time you file. Your $1950 payment outside of a BK is including interest that continues to accrue every single month. So you have to look at like that...how much money in interest you are saving.

Third, why did the court not allow the expenses? Do you mean they disallowed them totally or just contested the amounts? Your lawyer should come in handy here...he/she shoud have a worksheet they use.

[teribesse]

The percentage that I am paying back is 100%. My unsecured debt is only $34,000. Secured debt is $12,750 for auto; $2,513 for property tax; and defaults to mortgage of $1707 (1st) and $288 (2nd). These defaults on mortgage were to pay my attorney to convert from a Chapter 7 to Chapter 13 (IT'S A VERY LONG STORY). There are five creditors who never filed a claim.

I had not looked at it that way in regards to the interest not accruing; however, in my amended payment plan that still has to be sent to the trustee it states that if funds are available interest will be paid on the claims at the rate of 6% per annum.

This whole process started for me last August -- 8/15/05 when I filled out the paperwork for a Chapter 7 and paid the attorney. Before doing this I consulted this attorney since I am married and all of the unsecured debt that I had incurred over the last 15 years was in my name only approx. $70,000. I wanted to make sure that my husband did not have to be involved at all since he was not aware that I had this debt until just a few months prior to this. The attorney assured me that my income alone fell under the guidelines and with 2 dependent children there should be no problems. Well, was there problems, he did not file my petition with the court until October 12 (just before the new law went into effect). I kept calling and calling to see how everything was going shortly after I paid the attorney and brought him all of the documentation needed for filing. He kept saying it would get done. I went ahead and signed the final page without seeing what he finally had completed for my schedule J and there were mistakes that the trustee questioned and anyhow they said the case had to include my spouses income, so we did include the income and then it showed money after i/e were paid which led to the conversion of the Chapter 13. My attorney filed an amended plan without me seeing the information and it did not include my husbands expenses so this meant more time and I just believe that the trustee if fed up with me (even though I have gotten everything to my attorney on time).

My attorney states that the trustee is not going to allow for any other misc. expenditures i.e. auto related expenses; household expenses; personal care expenses or misc. expenses. Not allowing these expenses is what is going to make it impossible for me to make the montly payment plan and be able to make it from month to month.

My confirmation/dismissal is scheduled for august 22, 2006 at 10:00 a.m. and I am just not sure what to do. Should I just let it get dismissed and work with creditors on my own. What about the creditors that never filed a claim. Sorry to go on and on.

[lrprn]

My attorney states that the trustee is not going to allow for any other misc. expenditures i.e. auto related expenses; household expenses; personal care expenses or misc. expenses. Not allowing these expenses is what is going to make it impossible for me to make the montly payment plan and be able to make it from month to month.

My confirmation/dismissal is scheduled for august 22, 2006 at 10:00 a.m. and I am just not sure what to do. Should I just let it get dismissed and work with creditors on my own. What about the creditors that never filed a claim. Sorry to go on and on.

Teribesse, if what you are telling us is accurate, then I highly recommend that you take the paperwork that has been filed by your current attorney and arrange to meet with another attorney in your area who specializes and has filed a good number of Ch 13 cases as quickly as humanly possible. There is no way that a trustee would not allow you to include legitimate living expenses such as car, personal care, and household expenses unless they are considerably over what's acceptable for your community. Also there is no way your current attorney is allowed to file papers with the court that you did not sign.

Something seems very fishy here - sound like your current lawyer may be covering up mistakes he/she has made. You need to protect yourself - make an appointment for a free half-hour to hour consultation with another bk lawyer in your area and get another opinion! Keep us posted and DON'T let your case to be dismissed until you've talked to another experienced bk lawyer!

[SinkingFast]

I have heard of Trustees not allowing the total amount of a cable bill or a cell phone bill. Say you have the deluxe Cable package and the Court only allows for basic. Or you have excessive cell phone bills and the Court only allows a reduced amount. But to totally disallow normal expenses??!!

I have to agree with Lrprn. Your attny's approach was not legitimate to begin with. Having you sign a blank petition. Then filing a completed petition without allowing you to review it.

See if you can't get another BK attny to take over your case. What ever you do, do not allow your case to be dismissed. You filed under Old Law so Old Law will govern how your case is handled.

If you get dismissed, your Creditors will be all over you AND you'd HAVE to deal with them with no Automatic Stay to protect you. Plus, you'll have all the interest, penalties, and fees that have accrued since last fall added on top of your previous balances.

[Jman30]

I have heard of Trustees not allowing the total amount of a cable bill or a cell phone bill. Say you have the deluxe Cable package and the Court only allows for basic. Or you have excessive cell phone bills and the Court only allows a reduced amount. But to totally disallow normal expenses??!!

This is what my lawyer told me. They allow for expenses like utilities such as cable and phone. But the Trustee won't like you having the 600 channel gold cable package with NFL Direct and High Definition. LOL

But seriously...the law ALLOWS for certain expenses to be exempted. The Trustee can't just decide NOT to allow them. There is a base dollar amount that is allowed by law.

Get a new lawyer or at least take the one you have and set him straight.

[teribesse]

Thank you all for replying to my post. I am just so confused right now. I understand why the trustee won't allow extreme cable packages, cell phone packages, etc. but to not allow me personal care expenses and any misc. expenses wh ich is what my attorney stated last week, I just don't understand.

I called around to several attorneys and they said that since my confirmation is next week, they won't be able to talk with me or consult with me until my case is dismissed. I just feel like I have been totally run over.

[lrprn]

Thank you all for replying to my post. I am just so confused right now. I understand why the trustee won't allow extreme cable packages, cell phone packages, etc. but to not allow me personal care expenses and any misc. expenses wh ich is what my attorney stated last week, I just don't understand.

I called around to several attorneys and they said that since my confirmation is next week, they won't be able to talk with me or consult with me until my case is dismissed. I just feel like I have been totally run over.

Sometimes when we are very stressed, it's easy to only hear part of what someone is saying to us or to misinterpret it. Go back to your attorney IMMEDIATELY TODAY and get this clarified. It's his or her job to make sure that you understand everything about your case - that's why you paid the retainer. Please come back and let us know what happens.

If your lawyer tells you again that you can't include normal living expenses for housing, utlities, transportation, etc. on your forms, then find a way to pay another bk lawyer a retainer to represent you and change attorneys immediately. You must do everything you can to protect yourself in this situation! Also contact your state's bar association and file a complaint against this lawyer - he's either an idiot about bk or he's a crook.

[dscurlock]

thats crap..

I have heard of Trustees not allowing the total amount of a cable bill or a cell phone bill. Say you have the deluxe Cable package and the Court only allows for basic. Or you have excessive cell phone bills and the Court only allows a reduced amount. But to totally disallow normal expenses??!!

I have to agree with Lrprn. Your attny's approach was not legitimate to begin with. Having you sign a blank petition. Then filing a completed petition without allowing you to review it.

See if you can't get another BK attny to take over your case. What ever you do, do not allow your case to be dismissed. You filed under Old Law so Old Law will govern how your case is handled.

If you get dismissed, your Creditors will be all over you AND you'd HAVE to deal with them with no Automatic Stay to protect you. Plus, you'll have all the interest, penalties, and fees that have accrued since last fall added on top of your previous balances.

I asked an advisor to my attorney yesterday, I was told to make a list of everything I spend monthly...if i have a cell, and I have the cell deluxe or Cable, or I have the Deluxe TV/Phone/DSL package, fine...thats my true month to month expenses... this really sucks ass...my monthly income is $3700/mo, my expenses are $3870/mo, im having to overdraft 2 weeks before payday to make it to payday, these are real expenses..now I have a feeling when i go in, they will write off most of my expenses, that will seem like I would then have disposable income, basicly they are creating a False disposable income thats not real, as long as it benefits them... I pay $175 in smokes every month, thats real, that will never change, I have a feeling they will cross that out, and pretend that I do not smoke either...

[Jman30]

I pay $175 in smokes every month, thats real, that will never change, I have a feeling they will cross that out, and pretend that I do not smoke either...

Holy Crap - what brand are you smoking??? What state do you live in???

And you are right...the court will not allow your $175 in smokes as an expense.

[dscurlock]

filing next week...

Holy Crap - what brand are you smoking??? What state do you live in???

And you are right...the court will not allow your $175 in smokes as an expense.

only the best of the best, I dont smoke crap, this is for
2-3 people, but anyways, its real expense, its not
fake, but they will turn this $175 a month, back into
disposable income thats just not real, I can prove
every expense I have. Live in Texas.

[Minnymouth]

Don't know what your expenses are, but one thing is for sure....... there may be several things on your petition that are "not necessary" expenses that the Trustee may not allow.

Many people in Chapter 13 have to change their lifestyles and standard of living to get thru Chapter 13.... it's not an "easy ride"...

Expensive hobbies, private lessons of tennis, smoking, etc...... is not considered necessary expenses..... these will be eliminated and if they create disposable income..... this is what you will pay out to the payment plan...

The Court will "determine" your standard of living and what is reasonable while in a Chapter 13..... If you live a very comfortable lifestyle.... it's probably going to change for the duration of the payment plan....

What you consider necessary...... the Court does not... Example : you are allowed basic cable, internet...... anything else is a luxury..... Cell phone plans are a bare minimum.... Entertainment expenses are limited.... etc.

Unfortunately, you are supposed to be in a financial bind and penniless right now.... thats why you filed bankruptcy.....

Everything has a "loss" involved with it. Chapter 7 is normally complete liquidation of all assets. Some loose their homes, some don't. Chapter 13, you pay back to the creditors what the Court "decides" your able to pay.... this helps you keep your home, autos, etc...

Keep us posted......

[dscurlock]

filing next week...

Don't know what your expenses are, but one thing is for sure....... there may be several things on your petition that are "not necessary" expenses that the Trustee may not allow.

Many people in Chapter 13 have to change their lifestyles and standard of living to get thru Chapter 13.... it's not an "easy ride"...

Expensive hobbies, private lessons of tennis, smoking, etc...... is not considered necessary expenses..... these will be eliminated and if they create disposable income..... this is what you will pay out to the payment plan...

The Court will "determine" your standard of living and what is reasonable while in a Chapter 13..... If you live a very comfortable lifestyle.... it's probably going to change for the duration of the payment plan....

What you consider necessary...... the Court does not... Example : you are allowed basic cable, internet...... anything else is a luxury..... Cell phone plans are a bare minimum.... Entertainment expenses are limited.... etc.

Unfortunately, you are supposed to be in a financial bind and penniless right now.... thats why you filed bankruptcy.....

Everything has a "loss" involved with it. Chapter 7 is normally complete liquidation of all assets. Some loose their homes, some don't. Chapter 13, you pay back to the creditors what the Court "decides" your able to pay.... this helps you keep your home, autos, etc...

Keep us posted......

ok, so im supposed to cut back our TV, eatting, enternment. my wife spends $300/mo in clothes, makeup, jewlery, etc (which is appropriate for her job, Reginal Manager) if that was the case, we would have $500 disposable income. we got back, so there isnt shit on tv...no dsl, we are living backwards now, and she shows up to work like crap...(cant buy clothes, and other supplies) and all for what? so we can live a little more poorer and distribute $500/mo over $125,000 in debt? oh wait, why dont we cut our smoking too, its obviously not addictive, surely not a nessc, why dont I just ask my wife? she will cut my freaking head off... sure ;)
I forgot to mention that my wife gives $100/mo out to
family care, I guess the govt will say thats not real, and
turn that into false disposable income...

[Jman30]

This is true. I had to give up alot in my Chapter 13. Went down to the bare bones basic cable. Cut my high speed internet down to the slowest possible broadband speed. Our idea of vacations went from a Bermuda cruise before Bankruptcy to camping in the local state park in bankruptcy.

I am not a smoker, but I do enjoy a cold beer. I used to LOVE Sam Adams Light...the best of the best, right? Maybe a nice case of Heinekens? Now....in a Chapter 13? 12 pack of Busch Light is living large!

Minnymouth is right....just because you consider the $175 on smokes a month necessary, the court will not. The whole point of a Chapter 13 is the court takes ALL your disposable income.

If I were you, I would either quit smoking or learn to smoke the cheapest smokes around.......

[Jman30]

ok, so im supposed to cut back our TV, eatting, enternment. my wife spends $300/mo in clothes, makeup, jewlery, etc (which is appropriate for her job, Reginal Manager) if that was the case, we would have $500 disposable income. we got back, so there isnt shit on tv...no dsl, we are living backwards now, and she shows up to work like crap...(cant buy clothes, and other supplies) and all for what? so we can live a little more poorer and distribute $500/mo over $125,000 in debt? oh wait, why dont we cut our smoking too, its obviously not addictive, surely not a nessc, why dont I just ask my wife? she will cut my freaking head off... sure ;)
I forgot to mention that my wife gives $100/mo out to
family care, I guess the govt will say thats not real, and
turn that into false disposable income...

I understand your frustration, but you are missing the point of a Chapter 13 or a Chapter 7. At this point, it sounds like already are living paycheck to paycheck, even living in negative equity. At this rate, you will never get out of debt unless you win the lottery or something. Sure you will be living the same way in a Chapter 13, but you are paying your debt and be given a fresh start. When you are done in 5 years, you are debt free. Or in 5 years, you will probably still be in the same spot, or even worse.

Believe me, I feel your pain. BK, whether a 7 or 13, sucks. But for many of us, it is the only way to stop the bleeding, so to speak, and start over. But to given that opportunity to start over, you have to pay a price whether it is a monthly payment or loss of house, or whatever.