Discharge + 5 years and AMEX keeps tabs on us

[idainc]

Discharged AMEX card in a Chapter 7 over 5 years ago. About a year after the discharge we got a letter form them saying they were monitoring account activity on our old card numbers - essentially saying don't you try to use them I guess. Then today we each got letters from them saying they wee advised by the post office that we moved and if we didn't want that information used to let them know.

I called and they said to ignore it. But they did say there was an outstanding balance e on the account. The letter made no mention of it being an attempt to collect a debt. Its hard to come up with a good reason to keep following us AFTER a discharge.

Any thoughts ?

[justbroke]

American Express never forgets. They filed a 20-year old claim in my past bankruptcy. You technically should have received no correspondence from them, so that was probably just a mistake on their part.

[idainc]

But multiple mistakes ? I was pretty surprised. From my prior posts I recognize your handle and mine with the HOA gone wild. I just do not get the reasoning behind 5 years or in your case 20 years. They'd need to file to re-open AFTER an unencumbered discharge ? What were they after in your case ?

[TXskyblue]

It's not that they're after something. It's that they have the memory of an elephant. AMEX has a reputation as being the lender that never forgets. They will keep a file on you indefinitely.

[justbroke]

My file is from the late 1980s from a business card for a business my brother owned. I used the card twice, less than $200, and actually paid the entire bill for my brother several times in the late 1980s to help him out. They still filed that stale claim in the bankruptcy. I asked the judge to strike the claim, but she was nice and said to just leave it there, it will be disallowed and will definitely be "discharged". As TXskyblue writes, AMEX just never ever forgets. I'm sure I'm still in their system and it's now over 27 years.

I would send them a letter, certified, return receipt, demanding that they stop or face the consequences of sanctions for violation of the PERMANENT discharge injunction. That should make them stop. If they don't, see if an attorney will take it pro bono to get them to stop by re-opening your case for sanctions. (I've done this personally and as a pro se, and I don't recommend attempting to re-open for the limited purposes of filing a motion to show cause... it's a pain in the but, but it does enough to get your adversary to stop -- if they are in the wrong. I'd prefer an attorney to do it on contingency because they can usually, at least, get their fees back and you don't need to do anything.)

[idainc]

We filed pro se over 5 years ago and had our HOA at the time violate the automatic stay and then they violated the eventual discharge. Both violations were due to them sending a bill. I brought them before the judge in both instances and I was paid what an attorney would have been paid but was denied sanctions.

This was the “AZ HOA gone wild” I wrote about in this forum at the time.

As best as I can piece this together, AMEX maintains a list of every party they’ve dealt with and how much they lost as a result. This list also includes current debtors and those that have been discharged as well as current cardholders. And this list is run against a post office list of updated addresses. Why AMEX feels the need to send you a letter saying they know where you are but not ask for repayment is the issue.

In re-reading our judges orders, she took a more lenient stance with regard to sanctions and I suspect she (and we now live 400 miles away) may very well issue an opinion without a hearing saying she doesn’t find any cause to grant one given the lack of attempt to collect a debt.

You really have to wonder about the nature of a company who is willing to pay for the mailings they do just to let discharged debtors know that they know where you are. It goes well beyond the stance a business should take with their costs of doing business.

Now if they ask for money that’s a whole other story.. I enjoyed the challenge of hauling my HOA into court twice and watching them squirm and try to explain what they did to the judge. The first time the junior attorney didn’t appear in person he appeared by phone. The judge asked “Sir, what is so unimportant about my courtroom that you couldnt drive the 20 miles to come on over ?”

[skyblue69]

Prior to filing chapter 7 three years ago and when we were still answering the phone from the credit card co's due to the late payments, AMEX was the most aggressive & verbally demeaning of them all when calling. Our response to the creditors was "We are unable to make payment at this time & do not know if we will be able to in the future". Our reasoning for answering the phone was the belief that the frequency of phone calls would decrease. Looking back, I don't think it made one bit of difference.

[idainc]

Prior to filing chapter 7 three years ago and when we were still answering the phone from the credit card co's due to the late payments, AMEX was the most aggressive & verbally demeaning of them all when calling. Our response to the creditors was "We are unable to make payment at this time & do not know if we will be able to in the future". Our reasoning for answering the phone was the belief that the frequency of phone calls would decrease. Looking back, I don't think it made one bit of difference.

That's precisely why I got a Google Voice number a few years ago. Fortunately no need to avoid calls, but I've found that using that number cuts down on all calls dramatically. I only use a cell phone and it will ring worldwide. I only give it out to clients and family - all others get the google number. Its been a pleasure..

We had some debt with Bank of America and they were really bad This was in 2010 I guess at the height of the collapse. They came from a call center and you could hear them leaving voice mail messages in the background like "C'mon you bastards pick up !" I never actually spoke to any creditor.

We were walking away from a very upside down property and had to live in hindsight for far too long. People driving by, people knocking on the door and peering in the windows. Just awful and horrible. Did manage to have a bit of fun with our German Shepherd off the leash though.

Amex was not a factor - just a lot of mail that seemed to immediately stop as soon as we filed.