Have lost all hope.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

You are allowed "recreational expense." So, you use the "movie," money to buy curtains, oh well. You know ?

Just my thoughts, Catchmeifyoucan

[Emmy]

Grace that doesn't make much sense. You could say many of things a homeowner might declare as home maitenance would last a long time too. I'd think that you'd need replace a shower curtain much more often than say putting a new toilet in. For a home owner, they would be allowed to put a new toilet as an expense on their schedule J if they really needed a new one when they filed.

I think the point SinkingFast was trying to make is that even renters need to buy some things for their homes and it's not fair that we can't claim those items simply because we are renters instead of home owners. I don't know about other BK filers but because we have been so broke, I've been using the same sheet set since 2002. The material is starting to wear thin and has small holes. It would be nice to be able to put that as an expense since we will be buying new sheets soon.

Also, it's nice that you look to your grandmother as a guide but the things from her generation are just not the same quality. Most everything is cheaper now and it's especially true if you are broke and having to buy the cheapest quality. Oh and we are talking about a chapter 7 but I don't think that makes much difference since Schedule J is about any expenses one might have during a calendar year broken into monthly averages.

[Grace]

My grandmother never declared bankruptcy. I was only offering an example. I would think certain things may not be included in expenses because they last a long time.

[CAB_44]

I don't know how a bankruptcy court would categorize such things. Generally, I would think things like sheets, curtains, coffee makers, can openers, and utensils would last more than 5 years so people wouldn't need to replace them during a Chapter 13 bankruptcy. If someone is moving from one place to another where necessities like window treatments aren't provided, hopefully the attorney would be able to help define and explain this.

I look to my grandmother as a guide in such things. She hasn't replaced sheets, curtains, utensils, towels or other such things in many, many years. I would think a set of each would last for at least 5 years through a Chapter 13. Maybe that's why there isn't a category for them. I know she replaced the coffee maker not too long ago, but in the mean time, she used Sanka. That would fall under food, I'd think.

So Grace~
Are you saying that your Grandmother declared BK while she was using Sanka....you know, placing that on her Schedule J as FOOD???????

[Grace]

I don't know how a bankruptcy court would categorize such things. Generally, I would think things like sheets, curtains, coffee makers, can openers, and utensils would last more than 5 years so people wouldn't need to replace them during a Chapter 13 bankruptcy. If someone is moving from one place to another where necessities like window treatments aren't provided, hopefully the attorney would be able to help define and explain this.

I look to my grandmother as a guide in such things. She hasn't replaced sheets, curtains, utensils, towels or other such things in many, many years. I would think a set of each would last for at least 5 years through a Chapter 13. Maybe that's why there isn't a category for them. I know she replaced the coffee maker not too long ago, but in the mean time, she used Sanka. That would fall under food, I'd think.

[CAB_44]

AMEN SF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOO-HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody says it better~

[SinkingFast]

Things like shower curtains, sheets, curtains, coffee maker, etc. are things that most people need to buy at some point regardless of whether you rent or own. They're not house maintenance expenses.

Well I beg to differ. And I'm sure other folks here would too.

Things people buy for the household are HOME Maintenance items.

A coffee maker, can opener, and cooking utensils are not groceries.

Bed and bath linens, and curtains/blinds are not clothes.

Those things are part of home maintenance. They are not durable goods. They do wear out. Yet we aren't allowed to claim them anywhere in the budget on Schedule J.

If you don't consider those types of expenses to be Home Maint, how would you categorize them??

[Grace]

Things like shower curtains, sheets, curtains, coffee maker, etc. are things that most people need to buy at some point regardless of whether you rent or own. They're not house maintenance expenses. I would think that would just include things like a new roof, furnace, plumbing repairs, exterior paint. Stuff like that. If you have to purchase actual kitchen appliances as part of renting, like refrigerator and stove, then maybe you could add that.

[SinkingFast]

People here aren't saying they buy new sheets every year. Many of us broke folks have thread bare linens that need to be replaced. We are looking to categorize those "types" of expenses.

Renters do have home maintenance costs. Bed and bath linens definitely are not clothes. What about the coffee maker that goes kapooht?? Or the microwave you have to replace? If you rent a home where kitchen appliances are not provided and you have to purchase those??

When we moved into this condo, we needed new shower curtains. The homes we'd lived in before had glass doors.

Our attny did not list a home maintenance expense on our Schedule J, so I have no clue where he pushed those types expenses to.

[miss puff]

I don't know anyone who buys new sheets every year, certainly not every six months. And $150? Holy cow!

ummmm, eerrr, wwelllll..... Grace, did you happen to read my "IF money wasn't an issue" thread in General talk? LOL However, I am bankrupt and this may have been a contributing factor. But WOW, they sure are soft. haha

[Emmy]

Thanks all! I don't spend $150 on sheets! lol I was just guessing at what normal people spend, so my guess must be off. I've looked at the irs allowable so I can see now what can be considered reasonable.

We are planning to wait until our tax return is filed and spent. We have to wait anyway as to put some time on our cc where we haven't charged.

I'm still debating on if I will quit paying on the cc's until right before I file. I'd like to keep paying the minimums so that our score will be the least damaged coming out on the other side. (that is what I've gathered from reading here)

That is also what causes my receipt worry. If we are paying on the cc's up until we file then we will be budgeting hard core and NOT spending what we might normally buy on groceries or whatever during the month.

I have no worries that we would spend all of our income on resonable expenses with no disposable left over but that won't happen until we actually file for bk and use the cash we'd spend on paying cc's on normal monthly expenses.

Are you allowed to put dental expenses on schedule J if you've been using a cc for them? I also don't have the orginal receipt but it is on he cc statement, is that good enough for them? The same would go for clothes for our kids, we put them on a cc every winter and spring. My cc statements would the receipts.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Buying a New/Used Car ?

Just skimmed through the post really quick, anybody mention to Emmy about buying a new/used car? It will be hard for you to incur any debt once you file (especially if you want to get a reliable car). Unfortunately my car got flooded just before I filed, so I go myself into a new car, and had only made one payment by the time I got to my 341 meeting. What about considering filing after you receive your tax refund? Sounds like thats what your considering doing? I don't think the trustee can go for it after the fact, especially if you use it for reasonable expenses. Receipts, hmmm .. I would think you need them as proof if you spend more than the IRS standards. If you use a regular checking account, that would show what your spending your dough on. Anyways, just my thoughts!

Best wishes, Catchmeifyoucan

[Grace]

I don't know anyone who buys new sheets every year, certainly not every six months. And $150? Holy cow! I bought a set of sheets many years ago that were close to a $100, and I see no need to replace them any time soon. Just my opinion and observation. I would think $150 sheets every year would be an unreasonable expense. Heck, my grandmother has sheets that are easily 10-15 years old. Definitely spend money on things like health care and dentistry. Those are the important things.

[rrockinggramma]

You mentioned in your original post that you are a midwesterner. I am in Michigan. When I filed my chapter 7 (01) tax refunds were not taken in the Eastern District. However, they are if you file a chapter 13. When you talk to your attorney, ask what the local Bk rules are in your area regarding taxes. Our first lawyer told us to get the refund, spend it, and then file (for our chapter 13) and that is exactly what we did. Good luck and it will all be ok. And quit paying on any bill that would be discharged in your BK. That is like throwing money out the window. Good luck!

[Emmy]

Thanks Sinkingfast! We are also renters so we won't be able to put anything for home maintenance either. Were you able to put thoses expenses in another category? I've looked over the J schedule and everything is specific like food, clothes. I don't see anywhere to put the things you've mentioned that didn't fit into home maint or a category for things like pet food, shampoo, toliet paper. Kind of strange that those type things aren't on there but magazines are.