Student for the last five years with no income getting ready to file chp 7

[natboogie]

Hi folks I wanted to ask some questions and I hope that I get some replies.

I'm currently a Senior in College about to graduate this May and am way over my head in terms of my finances. I have over 18,000 in credit card debt and at least 10,000 in student loans. I haven't worked in five years, and I currently live with my dad.

There were several reasons why I couldn't work. 1)My mother's death from Cancer ( I was here caregiver right up until the end) 2) Now I live with my dad who is 70+ with no one else to care for him except me.

Now that I've finally completed my educational journey, I'm bombarded with this debt and the issue of filing for bankruptcy.

My Questions are as follows:

1) I would like to file Pro Se because I have no assets, and can't afford a lawyer is this possible?

2) I live in New York City so how does the means test work for my situation?

3) Will I need to include my father's income? (he gets social security every month)

4) The last time I spent on my charge cards were near the end of March so I was planning to file in July, is that a good idea?


I have the NOLO book, but it doesn't describe much about no asset cases.


Please Help! Thank you

[Minnymouth]

Best Suggestion I can give you is go see at least 3 bankruptcy attorneys for a consultation (won't cost you anything) BUT will give you an idea of what your up against and if you have any assets or future assets that the Court could tap into.....

DO NOT TELL THE ATTORNYS THAT YOU ARE FILING PRO-SE...... just talk to them about your circumstances and that presently you live off your fathers income (that's what I'm assuming).....

See what they say. Let us know and we can help you from there......

If you have inherited any funds or will you in the near future??, live off a trust fund ??, etc all these have to be considered when filing BK...... Do you own property??? A vehicle?? (is it paid for?)...... How far are you behind on credit card payments? Any cash advances on these cards in last 6 months??
How are you making your payments on your cards???

Your filing BK should no affect your fathers income...... it is based on your own personal situation...

Yet the Court is going to want to know HOW you fed yourself, paid your bills, etc over the last 5 years if you did not work....... did you have school grants???

Many things to consider in your case and we really need more information??

[SinkingFast]

Do you own anything?? Property, car, other assets?? Things that are registered with the County or Taxing authority?? If not, and you're not working, you're basically Judgement Proof for the time being. Really no need to rush to file.

Creditors check before spending good money going after bad. They'll pull your Credit to see if you're employed and where. If you're paying anybody else any money. They'll check at the Court House to see if you own property or a car. They'll research you thoroughly before spending a penny to come after you legally.

The only problem I see is the Education Loans. Once you're no longer in school, they're gonna want you to start repaying them. Others with more experience may be able to advise you about Deferment or Forebearance. What you need to do to qualify there. You can't discharge Student Loans in BK.

Take your time. Research and Learn. Ask all the questions you want. Generally someone here can help out with an answer.

Another thought for you,............. $18K really isn't a lot of debt to file BK over. Once you graduate, can you get a job that will allow for you to pay for Senior Care for Dad while you're at work?? Then you could possibly chip away at the CC debt in a reasonable amount of time. Even tho your Credit is already damaged, you won't take the Negative hit of BK on top of it all.

[natboogie]

I do not have a car, and I live with my dad in an apartment complex.

My only means of support is my grant money from school ( Loans, Pell grants) so I don't know how that fits into the means test.

As far as credit card payments I've paid each card every month until this month because I'm no longer getting any money from school, so I can't make the minimum payment.

The only thing I own is my computer, printer, various college textbooks and some clothes.

I appreciate all your help. Things are real tight for me right now.

[natboogie]

Oh! I forgot no trust funds,(we are considered below poverty) and no cash advances, just credit purchases for food and other necessities for myself and my dad.




Thanks

[SinkingFast]

Sounds like you're pretty much "Judgement Proof" at this point in time. So there really is no need to rush to file BK.

Your education,........... Can you get a job paying well enough to provide some sort of care for Dad while you're gone to work?? 'Cause if you can, maybe you can knock out the CC debt in a relatively short period of time.

If you're graduating in May, now would be the time to start looking for jobs. Credit Reports tend to run on about a 2 month delay. So if an employer were to look at your Credit as part of the pre-employment screening process, right now, nothing would show. Possibly not for a couple of months.

A few lates on your Credit Report is gonna be far easier to explain to prospective employers in the future than a BK will be. Plus, the lates will drop off quicker. BK is a public record that stays on your Credit Report for years.

[Spartan]

"...Yet the Court is going to want to know HOW you fed yourself, paid your bills, etc over the last 5 years if you did not work....... did you have school grants???.."


Not necessary so. Nobody asked me how I managed in the last few years w/o a job. They only asked if I have operated/owned a business, transferred any asset, AND if I have worked in the last 6 months. No one gave a hoot how I survived.. They only care IF I were hiding any asset or income....

My attorney had me signed an income tax returns release form, authorizing the trustee to retrieve any filing (which I actually have none since many years ago).

Apparently they don't care how you manage to survive. They only care if you are hiding assets and/or income....

[natboogie]

I've started the process of looking for a job since the new year, however with wages depressed as they are, What I'll make won't be enough to cover my bills and expenses for myself and more importantly, for my father. The other reason for my large outstanding credit balance, is that I've been paying for some of my father's medicine. Not everything is covered so I have to supplement where needed, hence the large debt.



Thanks

[emoney]

Why file now? The SOL will soon be in effect for your oldest debt and it will be legally dismissed or you have a defence if anyone sues to collect.
Filing BK does matter for some jobs, so why risk it. You do not need it because the student loans cannot be discharged in most cases.
regards,
emoney

[lrprn]

I see one potential issue for you - last night I was reading through a Ch 7 court case brief from Wisconsin where a graduate student had recently finished her degree but could not find employment near she was living in her area of study. She filed Ch 7 with a similar situation to what you describe, but the US Trustee filed an objection tp her discharge stating that she had been too picky searching for a job in her field to pay her creditors what she owed, and that she could have taken a job outside her study area to pay back some of her debt. (See http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us for the html version)

After studying all the facets of the case, in this case the bankruptcy judge ruled that to allow Ms. Ritchie's debts to be discharged in this situation would be "an abuse of the bankruptcy system". I'm not saying this will happen in your case - it's just something to add to your list of questions during the free consultations with 3-4 experienced bankruptcy lawyers.

[natboogie]

Thank you for that information, it does put a spin on things, but what gets me is that people file no asset cases all the time, without any extreme penalties. It makes me wonder about the system as a whole. However I have found some good information.


City Bar Justice Center in New York City offers pro bono help with filing or information about chp 7 cases. I will seek their help considering I meet their requirements of being at or below 200% poverty level.


Thanks again

[Spartan]

The problem is not you have no income and no asset. The problem is you are soon to be a graduate and are expected to have income, and be able to repay the debt. Thus, it appears that you are weaselling your way out of your debt before moving on to greener pasteur... Not necessary true.. but there is that assumption of abuse there.

[natboogie]

Thanks Spartan good advice. I guess I have two choices in this regard. Get a good paying job and pay back the debts, or file with the assumption of committing fraud hanging over my head. WoW!!

[Spartan]

Thanks Spartan good advice. I guess I have two choices in this regard. Get a good paying job and pay back the debts, or file with the assumption of committing fraud hanging over my head. WoW!!

Well.. there is a way out. Do you have insurance? If you do, go see a psychologist. Claim you are all stressed out b/c of taking care of your parents. You are feeling depressed blahblahblah blah... When you file, include a letter from yoru psychologist stating that you are suffering from depression blahblah and is under his/her care but will soon to get better.. blahblahblah..

No trustee would bother you, after reading that letter.. No one would nag you about getting a high pay job...


I normally do not counsel this kind of stuff. But it doesn't look like you are abusing the system here. You put your life on hold to care for your parents. That is commendable.


I do hope that you get a decent job and get out of this mess with no BK on record.

[SinkingFast]

Thanks Spartan good advice. I guess I have two choices in this regard. Get a good paying job and pay back the debts, or file with the assumption of committing fraud hanging over my head. WoW!!

You can thank Congress for that. They wrote the Law to not only consider the past, but to be forward looking as well.

Poor, struggling, college student wages are not an indicator of your earning potential with a Bachelor's Degree in whatever field.

You're getting this advice because you're just beginning life. You have the potential to earn decent wages in the near term. And your debt load isn't really all that large. <<Picture in your mind's eye being in a room filled with people who owe tens of thousands of $$$'s in addition to the homes and vehicles they are surrendering.>>

Filing BK for you now would be like trying to kill a gnat with a nuclear bomb. Yeah, it'll cure the problem, but the side effects are tremendous.

Plus, if you file now, and run into trouble in the not too distant future,........ You've already used your 1 shot and can't refile for another 8 years.

Honestly,............. We are trying to help you by offering you alternatives.