a few questions

[tomuchtohandle]

I (we) plan on filing soon for chp 7. We are below the median income for WI. After much consideration I think that it is in our best intrest to let go of one of our cars and our house. We have three cars and will be getting rid of the one with the highest payment. Our house has about 2000 equatity if that. the house payment is really what is hurting us. We took out a second mortgage about a year ago and the intrest rate and payment are killing us. With houses not selling around here I think it would be better for us to just let the house go when we file. Will the trustee question why we are letting the car and the house go. Will they make us go into chp 13 because we will not have so much debt. I am so scared nd nervous and embarresed. I just feel like if we are going to do this we should do it right. I don't want to came out of this living paycheck to paycheck. I have two small children who deserve better. Will the trustee ask why we are filing. What do you say? We spent to much!! Had a few bad finacial moves. I am going crazy. I have met with a lawyer and plan on filing soon. Just have to save the money to pay him. Also I work at the hospital and will be including my medical bills in the BK do you think I will lose my job. My medical bills are about 13000. Thanks in advance for any adivice.

[lrprn]

Will the trustee question why we are letting the car and the house go. Will they make us go into chp 13 because we will not have so much debt.

Most trustees don't ask why you decide to let which assets go, and most never ask how you got into so much debt to start with. If your income is truly below the state median, then it's 99% certain you can file Ch 7.

Also I work at the hospital and will be including my medical bills in the BK do you think I will lose my job. My medical bills are about 13000. Thanks in advance for any adivice.

Although the law protects you from being fired just because you filed bankruptcy, it's easy enough for an employer to make up an acceptable reason for letting you go and make it stick. However, hospitals understand how difficult financially things can be many of their patients right now. Hopefully some of that compassion will spill over in your case - I hope so!

[DeadManCrawling]

Scared, nervous, embarrassed? Man, I KNOW that feeling. A few weeks ago I was so petrified and humiliated I could hardly get out of bed.

You should read this board thoroughly. Use the "search" function to find the answers and suggestions for your questions.

To get over the scared part, educate yourself about the process. Knowing how it works will remove the fear and give you a sense of power. There ARE things you can do beforehand, though they may be somewhat limited depending on when you plan to file. PLANNING for BK is legal, if done right.

As far as the embarrassment, there are only individual decisions and every case is unique. I look at it this way: For the psat 4 years I have funded ballbreaking, record profit margins for some of the scummiest corporations on earth. I have paid 170k interest on purchases that totalled perhaps 55k. Stupid me.

At the same time, I inadvertently shirked duties to my family. We let medical/dental/retirement/leisure requirements go to hell. For what? So the CC companis would stay off our ass. THEN, after years of being a good customer, we called and asked for a reduction of interest or a reasonable payment plan. No dice, they said. We replied, "Well, I guess you will get NOTHING when we file bankruptcy." They said, "Fine" and hung up.

Embarrassed? You bet your ass. I am terribly embarrassed for putting my family in second place after these sharks and thieves.

What will the neighbors think? Who cares, I say, with a straight face. YOUR responsibility is to yourself and your family. How many neighbors/friends/coworkers will secretly wish they have the guts to file as well. I took the gloves off and openly announced this to virtually all of my friends. Guess what? They TOO are in the same type of situation. Almost all of them. They were shocked that I was so open about it, but it relieved the feeling of embarrassment as soon as they began asking ME questions, and describing their own financial mess. I decided, then and there, that I would scream my situation from the rooftops, hoping that it might help just ONE person avoid some of my mistakes.

Your worth as an individual is measured by more than a few bad decisions financially. Your worth, in my opinion, is tied to who you ARE, not what you OWN. It is also determined by the people you love, and who love you in return. These simple values stand in direct opposition to the "stigma" of BK. Your family and friends, if they are truly the people you hope they are, will not judge you based on a FICO score or filing bankruptcy.

We have found out who really loves us, and some of the results were quite surprising.

For instance, my wife's family was on hard times for a few years. We gave her parents a brand new car to drive, until they could save to get one of their own. We loaned them 15k. We bought them an estimated 9k in groceries. We paid THEIR CC bills. And cable bill. And utilities.

Then they received a 100k inheritance, from which they said they would pay us back a portion-at a later date. If we ever needed it.

Last December, we were informed our home insurance was set to double.

We asked them to return part of our money. 2k was all we needed.

No way, her father said. That's OUR retirement money.

What? We were stunned.

After all we had done, and after explaining our dire situation, they STILL opted to tell us to go piss into a freezing wind.

We are discovering who is real and who isnt. You likely will, too.

It's not about the neighbors. It's not about the in-laws or coworkers.

This is SURVIVAL. And the people you think care may not give a thought to you.

It's up to you to do the right thing for your family. Most of the rest of the world would have no opinion or care about whether you ended up living next to the river in a tent.

My 2 cents, as always.

DMC

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Well said "DeadMan!"

Best wishes, Catchmeifyoucan

[SinkingFast]

You may be surprised to learn that once you convert to a "Cash and Carry" lifestyle, you have way less surplus money than you expect.

You're gonna have to pay an attny, filing fee, pre BK Credit Counseling, and post BK Debtor Education.

Gotta find some place else to live. Now you're paying rent. Plus costs to move.

When you stop using CC's,........... You're gonna pay for all groceries, medicals, gasoline, insurances, auto maintenance and repairs, etc, with cash.

Once you're living on cash, you'll realize just how much you were living beyond your means with CC's.

[Runnin on empty]

Very succinctly put DMC. It's what I too have known for nearly a half-decade, but was too embarrassed, too ashamed to admit it to anyone, let alone myself. 5 years of my life are gone, my kids are 5 years older, I feel as though I've aged 30 years. These 5 years is time that my family and I will never get back. My oldest son's first day of kindergarten...youngest son's first steps...my wife's birthdays...more than a few anniversaries...

All forsaken so that I could quite literally slave away anywhere from 70-110 hours a week so we could pay those blood-sucking scums the minimums. Sure, we were the ones who were dumb enough to fall for their "siren song", but they sure as heck go out of their way to make sure it's heard across the country, loud and clear. Even as badly in debt we are right now, there still isn't a week that doesn't go by that we don't receive anywhere between $30K-$100K in CC offers in the mail. "Just continue to sign your life away, don't worry, we'll take good care of you..."

Never again. They can wipe that Cheshire Cat grin right off their faces, or I'll remove it, permanent like...

My God, what have I done...I just hope someday my family can forgive me...

[DeadManCrawling]

Your family will forgive you. We all make mistakes. The first step though, my opinion here, is to forgive YOURSELF.

It is a long slow time between the first potential problem that creeps up and the final "boiling pot" we find ourselves in. In the end, we can crystallize and see all the things that should have been obvious months or even years earlier.

For myself, I always thought redemption was just around the corner. Surely it would rescue me because. . . well, because I am ME.

I am certain I am not the only one to experience this-hanging on for one last moment, for something, anything, to change. A new job, a new client, a new career. It has no importance.

The strike to our egos and our self esteem is perhaps the most damaging element in all this. The realization that we were NOT good enough.

But, you know what?

We weren't good enough for that MOMENT.

And there are so many more moments yet to come.

Moments that mean MORE.

You missed your son's first day of school. And other moments.

But you can be there for his graduation. His wedding. The birth(s) of your grandchildren.

There is true value in the lesson we have learned or taught ourselves here.

We only live once, and I for one, will never again sacrifice my family for appearances or to satisfy some nameless, mindless, slave-making debt machine.

best wishes,

-dmc

[HenriettaHen]

As I said before on another thread, WHOO LuVS YA, BABY??

You are a great poster and most probably a great person as well.

Succinctly and eloquently put.

HH

[lrprn]

"Never take the advice of someone who has not had your kind of trouble." - Sidney J. Harris

I think Mr. Harris is a wise man, and I also think you are just trying to make trouble here. You can believe whatever misguided and incorrect information about bankruptcy you've been fed by the creditor media machine - we know the truth because we've lived it and you haven't. Kindly please move along and share your "wisdom" with a more deserving forum (and this will be my last post to any comments you make in the future). I encourage our other members to not take the bait - it only encourages this kind of self-righteous poster to get more outrageous and inflamatory. This person is not worth one second of your time.

[poorme]

toomuch - I have said this before, regarding the 'shame and embarassement' . "Those who like you will continue to like you - the others don't matter."

I attended one of those post-bankruptcy seminars, it was a huge event and a LOT of people were there. The speaker did introductions and then invited us to look around the room at all the 'regular looking people' in attendance, say hello to those next to you - they could be your neighbors, co-workers, doctors, etc. That's why I mentioned to someone else posting about concern that he would be shunned at work if the public record was discovered..."you'd be surprised at how many of your fellow workers at your company either have or are going through bk as well, if they told the truth". Focus on yourself and your family - you need each other to get through this - and you will!

[DeadManCrawling]

"Never take the advice of someone who has not had your kind of trouble." - Sidney J. Harris

I think Mr. Harris is a wise man, and I also think you are just trying to make trouble here. You can believe whatever misguided and incorrect information about bankruptcy you've been fed by the creditor media machine - we know the truth because we've lived it and you haven't. Kindly please move along and share your "wisdom" with a more deserving forum (and this will be my last post to any comments you make in the future). I encourage our other members to not take the bait - it only encourages this kind of self-righteous poster to get more outrageous and inflamatory. This person is not worth one second of your time.

Wow, where did THAT come from? And was it directed at me? I sure hope not, I don't feel self-righteous, and I AM certainly going through this, just as everyone else here is We will be filed at the end of this month (CH13).

Oddly, lrpn, the exact same post(all from you) showed up on 2 or 3 threads simultaneously this morning. Maybe I missed something else that was going on at the time.

In any event, I am just trying to offer a bit of encouragement where possible, and slog through my own financial mess with the help of this board.

Best wishes,

-dmc

[whatamess]

Sinking fast is right, our cash and carry lifestyle has proven very intersting. I thought once we free'd up paying on the CC every month, we would have 'all this extra money'..what a joke. It was only then I realized how really broke we are. After I envelope our budgeted amounts for each expense each month we have a whole $40 left to entertain ourselves. For a family of four thats a movie, sans popcorn. It was a huge reality check. Its sad but true, most folks in this country, some even with very high incomes, live pay check to paycheck, with or w/o debt. I know someone making $300k and living paycheck to paycheck with very liitle CC debt. Bigger incomes mean bigger houses, cars, vacations and lifestyles. Bigger expectations. Ive read the US has the LOWEST personal savings in the whole world, yet some of the highest incomes.
Before, we charged our needs and bought our wants cash. VERY dumb on my part. Ive given myself a swift kick in the derrier and will now file chapter 7.
Life goes on, more frugally...lol.
WAM

[DeadManCrawling]

Ive given myself a swift kick in the derrier and will now file chapter 7.
Life goes on, more frugally...lol.
WAM

Agreed. We are fairly high income filers, and you are right. There IS an expectation that you should spend it as you make it. Bigger house, nicer cars, more glamorous vacations.

It is the modern American Dream. And it is wrong, in my now humble opinion.

If we had taken just HALF of what we wasted and socked it away when times were very good, we would not be in this mess.

Just because our income was great, we assumed (wrongly) that it could only get better. Really, I guess, we didn't even think about it. Realizing that our income dropped was an incredible gateway opening. I could not have been more astonished if the refrigerator had begun squawking like a duck and ran down the street at noon.

It just wasn't supposed to happen this way.

It did anyway, and we have learned our lesson. On the other side of this mess we created, we will live differently, and plan for the "worst-case" instead of blindly plowing ahead utterly confident that we are incapable of experiencing problems.

We know different and will behave so.

What a startling and nasty realization, though. By the time we knew we were headed for bk, we were probably already 2 years past when we really SHOULD have filed.

Live and learn.



best wishes,

-dmc

[whatamess]

Dmc

I read this book, It's called "Die Broke". I learned a good deal. If nothing else it took my mind of the chapter 7 for awhile.

Having lived overseas, even if temporarily I saw in Europe and Asia how differently they spend & save compared to us. (Half of our family still lives in a very modern, clean Asian country) There are very few walk in closets full of coach bags and clothes, as most buy what they needs and choose good quality for those needed items...many families survive with one or no car (they have the option of public transit though), they have MUCH smaller homes, they buy fresh foods and COOK (gasp), and children dont expect a gazzilion toys or after school activities. I noticed the children and teens spend much more time on studies..lol. HUGE Inground pools, boats and second homes are for the super rich millionairs. Families eat together daily and live in cramped conditions compared to ours yet seem, well, HAPPY!!! My nephew has maybe, eight toys and ten outfits and is thriving. Its made me personally rethink many things. Maybe less is more?

We all need to live happy today, for who knows what will happen tomorrow. We can all be thankful we were born or live here in a country that we can be BR and that we have no debtors prison. We can be glad we have food unlike many countries less fortunate.
WAM

[SinkingFast]

Wow, where did THAT come from? And was it directed at me? I sure hope not, I don't feel self-righteous, and I AM certainly going through this, just as everyone else here is We will be filed at the end of this month (CH13).

Oddly, lrpn, the exact same post(all from you) showed up on 2 or 3 threads simultaneously this morning. Maybe I missed something else that was going on at the time.

In any event, I am just trying to offer a bit of encouragement where possible, and slog through my own financial mess with the help of this board.

Best wishes,

-dmc

We had a new "Member" sign up and troll the board in the middle of the night posting derogatory comments aimed at folks considering BK.

I removed the comments and banned that User ID. That's why the flow of some threads looks a bit odd.