presumption of abuse

[dumbdumb]

I guess i spoke too soon in my previouse post.. i thought all went well at 341 no creditors showed no objections.. trustee had no further questions and i was free to go. but as i just checked the pacer...
i see a statement of presumed abuse.

the product of my current monthly income X 12 is not less than the requirements specified in section 704 blah blah blah.

AM I SCREWED?

[lrprn]

I guess i spoke too soon in my previouse post.. i thought all went well at 341 no creditors showed no objections.. trustee had no further questions and i was free to go. but as i just checked the pacer...
i see a statement of presumed abuse.

the product of my current monthly income X 12 is not less than the requirements specified in section 704 blah blah blah.

AM I SCREWED?

Your trustee seems to think that your Means Test shows sufficient disposable income to push you into Ch 13 unless you can show some significant extenuating circumstances (severe chronic medical problems, being called up by the military, etc). Looks like your lawyer's concerns you mentioned in another post that your trustee might push you into Ch 13 were on the money.

Talk to your lawyer on Monday - he received the same paperwork you did - and discuss what the course of action to deal with this objection is going to be.

[rilbrianne]

Ouch, but you said that you give up after just buying a new truck, which you put 9500 down on. Do you have any idea how long it would take some of us to get that kind of money?! Of course, our financial situations are different but if you expect to go out and buy a new bike soon after BK and your credit score was a 700 - something, then it sounds as though you weren't in as much trouble as, well, as much as you thought.

I guess I'm being kind of harsh, I do hope the best to you but only you know your financial situation and I can only make assumptions from past posts. Still, good luck and I hope the future looks bright for you.

[JRScott]

It appears the trustee is going to try to force a chapter 13. Get with your lawyer as early as you can and ask him about the situation. Hopefully he can come up with a strategy to keep you in chapter 7. If not then get ready for a chapter 13.

[freshstart06]

Ouch, but you said that you give up after just buying a new truck, which you put 9500 down on. Do you have any idea how long it would take some of us to get that kind of money?! Of course, our financial situations are different but if you expect to go out and buy a new bike soon after BK and your credit score was a 700 - something, then it sounds as though you weren't in as much trouble as, well, as much as you thought.

I guess I'm being kind of harsh, I do hope the best to you but only you know your financial situation and I can only make assumptions from past posts. Still, good luck and I hope the future looks bright for you.

My goodness, I hope all is going to be okay... I am usually the cheerleader but I have to agree with the above post. My husband's income was over the median but puting down $9500 on anything will take forever. I also have a chronic illness (diabetes) blind in one eye and diabetic retinopathy in the other, can not walk long distance and in chronic pain, we dont own a home that can be refinance and our credit scores suck so we could not get a debt consolidation loan, we also have a daughter with chronic asthma and we are a family of six so these factors saved our butts from chpt 13, everytime my husband has to take off of work because of a doctor's appt or such means missed pay. I am avoiding surgery as we speak. So for us saving $9500 will not happen this year.

Remember, some of these trustees are very trained financial wizards they know all of our tricks to move money around. Thank goodness in your case you have a Lawyer who I hope can help you and make this a happy ending, is it possible they can put you in a small payment plan but you still discharge and close in chapter 7, I am hearing there is something like this out there. Ask your lawyer about it, it is better then going chpt 13

[dumbdumb]

My goodness, I hope all is going to be okay... I am usually the cheerleader but I have to agree with the above post. My husband's income was over the median but puting down $9500 on anything will take forever. I also have a chronic illness (diabetes) blind in one eye and diabetic retinopathy in the other, can not walk long distance and in chronic pain, we dont own a home that can be refinance and our credit scores suck so we could not get a debt consolidation loan, we also have a daughter with chronic asthma and we are a family of six so these factors saved our butts from chpt 13, everytime my husband has to take off of work because of a doctor's appt or such means missed pay. I am avoiding surgery as we speak. So for us saving $9500 will not happen this year.

Remember, some of these trustees are very trained financial wizards they know all of our tricks to move money around. Thank goodness in your case you have a Lawyer who I hope can help you and make this a happy ending, is it possible they can put you in a small payment plan but you still discharge and close in chapter 7, I am hearing there is something like this out there. Ask your lawyer about it, it is better then going chpt 13

ok i guess my situation is not as bad as yours and i hope things look up for you.
my situation is stupid investments. i purchased two homes and they have both depreciated at least $50,000 each. i refinance one home but couldnt refinance the other one. my renter moved out and was left with a depreciating house which cleaning out my bank account every month.

i didnt have th option to sell because here in las vegas the home prices have gone down considerably i couldnt sell it for what i owe. and it wouldve foreclosed before it sold anyway.

frankly i wanted out this whole situation was too stressful. I was having chest pains from all the worrying.

my vehicle was having electrical issues and was 10 yrs old. i thought i better buy a new one now because i wouldnt be able to later.
that being said i did not intend to purchase but just look. but instead ended up buying it.

i had .........money in the bank at that time. i put $9500 down..

my income is above the medium but because of my two homes it was negative $2500 per month.

[JRScott]

I hope you come out of it okay , hopefully you can meet with your lawyer and he can have an idea of how to approach it to be favorable to you .

[freshstart06]

dumbdumb, at this point do not give up, that is what they want you to do. I read all the other post on this board and everyone that was labled abuse end up getting discharged. Fight even if it means you have to find another lawyer that is willing to fight with you. Please just don't give up, if you fight you will usually come out a winner. I want so bad to see you get discharged. No matter what do not listen to anything negative stay focused on winning this. No one knows what the outcome will be but at least you put everything you have into it. Also, if you have to give up your car (do not be stubborn) give it up, if that is all you have to do to stay in chpt 7. I think they will let me keep my van because I need a big enough car for my wheelchair but if they told me I had to get rid of or file cht 13 believe me, the van will stay right there at the court house. LOL. I will get another van after I close. If they tell us we have to turn over our all of our Indian tribe reservation money, I will personally hand it over. It is just all worth it to me to get rid of all my previous debt and start over. I just never understood how some people (not talking about you) are afraid to let some things go in place of having thousands of dollars worth of debt removed?? Material things can be replaced but removing debt can be a lifetime and you still lose everything, it is worth it to me, they can have it all. ONe day I will get better, thankfully, I don' have internal problems ie kidney, heart, stokes, those kind just problems that can heal with time, my take a lot of time but it can heal and is not life threathening. I look forward to a new start.

I will keep you in my prayers if that is okay with you. You seem like such a kind person. Just keep in your mind do not give up, nothing is impossible.

[freshstart06]

dumbdumb, I just reread your post, you are in Vegas...You are experiencing the same problems that Phoenix is going through as far at the housing market. Remember 2005 the housing boom??? Don't feel bad about your situation because right now chpt 4 filing is so high in our area maining because of the Housing market bubble burst. It is so bad it is affecting people that never purchased a home. the economy on the West Coast is pretty bad right now. Michigan is really bad as well, when I was doing loans most lenders started pulling out of Michigan. We are like in a unspoken and refuse to admit by the govt. depression right now. Before I decided to stop working I use to get stories from people that left me in tears. One lady was still in her home in the dark (the utilities got cut off) trying to refinance but the home was worth less then what she owed. Then she lost her job. The story ended happy because she found a rental and found another job but it was a pretty sad story, she had kids.

[dumbdumb]

thanks freshstart06,

the truck i purchased is not the issue i dont think...well it is with some on this board but i would gladly give it up to end this all. my income is higher than the median income is what the letter says.
$9000 over to be more precise.
i wanted to file chapter 7 to be over with all of this quit my job and relocate to portland. I only stayed in the same profession so i may be able to refi when the time came and job wouldnt be an issue.
but if i have a chapter 13 payment i dont know what i am going to do. i guess i will have to stay at my job just for the money for the next 5 yrs.
uhck i am so discusted. i lived my life frugally, my house is not even fully furnished because i am to cheap to buy furniture. i figured i could keep the houses longer if i dont spend any extra money till the market went up. In the long run it would be a good investment, but the market went down and is predicted to keep going down till 2009. i fixed up the rental before i did anything to mine, everything i had went into these f@#$ houses. now i will have to pay for 5 more years. I am so over with this.

your prayers are much appreciated
thanks again

[HHM]

Come on, if your income is over the Median, that is a no brainer....OF COURSE there is going to be a presumption of abuse. There is no allowance for expenses related to real estate that is not your primary residence. (if you did some more homework on BK before you filed, you would have discovered this fact).

I am sorry for the mess that your in, and unfortunately, I don't really have any good suggestion about how you can get out of it except to see if an attorney would be wiling to jump in and see if he can clean it up (keep in mind, most attorney's won't get involved in cases that have already been filed.).

[dumbdumb]

looks like 13

looks like 13 .. playing phone tag with my lawyer. i had a heated discussion with his asst. because i get more answers from her than i do him... so i guess i wont be posting on this thread anymore... see me in chapter 13 section.

[freshstart06]

I don't know, read some of the previous post just about everyone that was consider abuse fought back and discharge and closed. Give it a try before you give in. If you passed the means test then you should fight.

[freshstart06]

Also look into changing lawyers, someone on this site was told by his lawyer that he had to file chapter 13 he changed lawyers and closed chpt 7 or maybe he went pro se, not sure but if you read previous post you will see.

[Minnymouth]

As HHM says, your over the median income and that raises the "red flag" for the US Trustee.....

You can't just file a Chapter 7 because you want too......

The court decides which chapter of bankruptcy you are allowed to file depending on your circumstances and income...

Your attorney should have already let you know that there was no way you would be eligible for a Chapter 7.....

Hopefully you can get this straightened out with getting your case dismissed. If your case is dismissed, then your creditors will be BACK IN FULL FORCE and you with no way out.....

Talk to your attorney, find some answers, keep us posted.

Minny