HOAs...

[BKcrazy]

I just spoke with my attorney on this. He said he got a letter from the HOA saying they are a secured debt. He said secured or unsecured, he doesn't care. And being that I'm surrendering the hovel, he said they will get paid through a trustee sale. (oh?) Also stated doesn't matter if I am occupying the property or not post-petition. But, not what was said a couple weeks ago. Said this is not unique (I'm in AZ), and they can't do anything to me here. This must happen a lot is my guess. Argh. Confusing, because I thought I was to pay post petition, but he said no one has even filed yet to lift the stay. Told me, insisted, do not pay the HOA any money at all.

Though, now that I think of it....since there is an automatic stay, they have to file all that stuff to try to collect against me. That would take time.

[busbis]

I give up...PLEASE HELP...I just don't know what to think

I have now went to yet another atty today here in GA. I am surrendering 2 condos, do not qualify for the 7 due to income and no one says I can to a 7 because of the "non consumer" debt because I am still making too much money at the end of my budget. But still everyone is suggesting that I don't even file a 13 on my condos and just let them foreclose. The reasoning of letting them go thru the bk is so I am not responsible for a definency bal. The condos are in FL and every atty will say "I'm not sure how FL's laws are", but I live in GA and I have to file here.

Can anyone please give me reasons as to why I shouldn't file even a 13 to surrender these debts and let them just go into foreclosure. I know that Bk is not the best thing in the world (neither is the foreclosure) but wouldn't help me sleep better at night knowing I am protected under the bk laws? I know alot of this forum is having the same issues with investment property. Are ya'll being told the same thing as I am? I just don't know what to do anymore.

I can't afford to keep them, I have took from savings, I have lived off credit cards for the last 3 months, isn't there something I can do?

[CindyLou]

how much is the debt from your condos and how much is your personal debt? If the condo debt is more then your income does not matter and you can file a 7! You need to see another attorney.

[inhocknow]

Hello folks, thanks for all of your help.
It appears that if your are surrendering a property in bankruptcy, that you should stop paying all H.O.A. dues even if it is after you filed for bankruptcy? It appears that although this debt is post-petition debt, they can not come after you or hold you responsible? Does anyone else have ideas on this? Thanks for all of your great and fantastic help folks.

[CindyLou]

They will report you to collections for the post-bk fees and you will ruin your credit. I don't know how many ways to say this.

[BKcrazy]

I addressed that with my attorney. I think at the stage I am at, he doesn't want me giving anyone any money until after the 341 meeting. Credit is already ruined after BK??? Even with a clean slate, don't think it's going to look too hot. I read the CC&Rs for my HOA, they would have to take me to small claims, once I am late for two months or attach a lien to the property. They didn't get a chance to do that prior to me filing.

But, it still worries me. I don't want to go against my attorney. He told me to just stop worrying and wait for the 341.

[CindyLou]

A negative hit after BK is worse than the BK itself. It goes against the whole "I'm dedicated to a fresh start.." speak you have to work up for your new creditors. Really though, whether they can collect or not is not the big deal here...they propably can't, but they can sure damage our creidt trying. There was a case on here where a woman had a judgement on her 3 years after she vacated a property and then found out the bank didn't foreclose after the BK. They came after her for all those fees and got a judgement. I just don't think its worth the change. Man one minute out my BK I was walking the straight and narrow take no chances, baby. Still the same way. NO CHANCES! I know it sucks, but I'd rather pay that money and be safe or just try and get the deed in lieu speed up really fast! Good luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya!

[busbis]

It appears that it might be different for different states. My condos are in FL and reading 718.116 F.S it states

1)(a) A unit owner, regardless of how his or her title has been acquired, including by purchase at a foreclosure sale or by deed in lieu of foreclosure, is liable for all assessments which come due while he or she is the unit owner. Additionally, a unit owner is jointly and severally liable with the previous owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. This liability is without prejudice to any right the owner may have to recover from the previous owner the amounts paid by the owner.

b) The liability of a first mortgagee or its successor or assignees who acquire title to a unit by foreclosure or by deed in lieu of foreclosure for the unpaid assessments that became due prior to the mortgagee's acquisition of title is limited to the lesser of:


Then it states further into the f.s:

Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (b), a first mortgagee or its successor or assignees who acquire title to a condominium unit as a result of the foreclosure of the mortgage or by deed in lieu of foreclosure of the mortgage shall be exempt from liability for all unpaid assessments attributable to the parcel or chargeable to the previous owner which came due prior to acquisition of title if the first mortgage was recorded prior to April 1, 1992. If, however, the first mortgage was recorded on or after April 1, 1992, or on the date the mortgage was recorded, the declaration included language incorporating by reference future amendments to this chapter, the provisions of paragraph (b) shall apply.

I post this, because it pretains to me. I really believe it could be different in all states. I don't think I am required to pay any HOA dues after the bk filing only my past due. Whomever takes the property will then be responsible for paying. Now for for US code, it states I am not liable if no one is occuping, so I feel as though I'm covered. Maybe not, but reading this it sure seems that way. If I were you, I recommend reading your states statutes on your HOA's. The association follows their rules.

[CindyLou]

lol...what is says is ....your name on title means you pay regardless of how you got the title. if they foreclose and you haven't paid then whomever takes over will but if there is a lag time where it is sitting waiting to foreclose and you are on the deed, it WILL go to collections.
Like I said in my previous post its not about who will be made to pay in the end, its about who is suppose to pay in the here and now and how serious you are about preserving your credit post bk. Ok. I'm done beating this horse

[BKcrazy]

Cindy, I understand what you are saying. Completely. I didn't let my credit go until I stopped paying my mortgage and HOA. I was still paying everyone. I do understand the importance of guarding credit.

I'm just confused as to why my attorney would tell me not to pay them anything right now. Does it have something to do with the pending 341? I had called him two days ago and asked him, being I need to pay them post-petition, when do I start paying - Dec 1? I want to be prepared for expenses like that. He said, I don't have to be prepared for anything right now, just the 341, trustee questions and next credit class. He insisted that I right now, do not pay them anything at all. And I think right now, they may refuse payment, I've heard of that happening when BK has been filed. Or maybe he is planning to work something out with the HOA? It's a bit strange, and other things I've read, that when you pay them, it can be that you are trying to work out the pre-petition amount, which could defeat the purpose of having listed them as a creditor in the first place.

[CindyLou]

You know what? At the end of the day you should do what youe attorney says! This advice is only meant to spur more discussion and not to override that advice. I would, however become more cautiaus if you begin to receive staements from them. My position still stands but I, probably along with other members would encourage going with yur attorney's advice over mine

[BKcrazy]

Yes, yes, yes! I am going with what the attorney is telling me. But (always a but) I'm just nervous about this. The way the HOA works here, there are never any statements, until your really, really late. Not like we don't know it's due the first, it's accessed a late fee by the 15th. (Appears a lot of people where I live are in the same spot, lots of people are behind-my mom thinks it's a matter of time before the HOA goes bankrupt).

Argh. Just frustrating. As I'm sure you and others can understand. I just can't make sense of it. Maybe I should eat some ice cream or chocolate.

On a funnier note, when I had called my attorney's office a second time that day, the other attorney in the office told me to relax, go to the park, go to dinner or go shopping....Erm, I'm kind of broke right? HAHA

[busbis]

Cindy, I posted the f.s with the us code that bassboy had previously posted. It states that the debtor is responsible for the association fee or assessment for a period arising before entry of the order for relief but not afterwards. If the condo is being surrendered through the bk then how can I be responsible for the HOA's. The mortgage companies can drag their feet and chose not to foreclose and wait till the market is improved. I mean why would they want to put the home in their name to carry more cost...wouldn't it make more sense to the mtg company for the market to improve. There has to be some protection for the consumer who is surrendering the property. In the f.s it does say that the new unit owner who acquires the property is jointly and severally liable with the previous owner for all unpaid assessments that came due up to the time of transfer of title. It would be up to the new owner to come after the previous owner. It is unlikely that the HOA would do this....this is how I am taking it. I will have to take all this info to my atty to translate for me, but the bk has to have some protection for the debtor...if you surrender the property, they are not calculating the new HOA dues in my budget...only my past due.

[BKcrazy]

My ex bf bought a condo here in...2004. He got smacked with an assessment shortly after. The previous owner knew about it and never disclosed it. So, he was out another $1500. He didn't sue, sure he could have?

HOAs stink, so not ever getting involved with one again.