UST Filed Statement Of Presumed Abuse

[helpless]

We should be finishing up our 13 here in a few months. I will tell you first hand if we could have done a 7, I would have in a heartbeat. The feeling of living under the microscope has ripped us to our core. I am so tired of being stressed for the past three years. If you do qualify for a 7, go for it!! I will admit that I am one of those jealous ones, but hopefully it will be done soon enough. Really, I don't think of it like I am being morally correct, I think of it that I am screwed because of the house!!! Oh, well!! Hoping for a successful future for all.

[jp2861]

Ok, I JUST saw this post and I did NOT mean to offend. I'm just speaking for myself as stated in my post previous!
I pay $825 into my plan and if I found I didn't have the income to do it, I would FIND IT. Whether it be online doing something part time ( like I do now with mystery shopping and surveys ) or working at McDonalds.....I would find it. This is because I want to pay some back. I'm not at 100 percent payback by any means. I can actually pay more per month but my attorney won't let me. I can NEVER be forced into a 7 because the mediun for our state is only $40,000 or so and I know between us we can do that, whether we're home sick and disabled, or healthy and working. There are so many avenues to go to and jobs to be found and for me, I won't sit back and let the decisions I made ( and they were bad ) make me feel like I'm cheating someone. I signed up for the credit, I used it and I owe it. PERIOD.
I don't want you to think for a minute that you need to do the same OR think the same as me.
THIS IS MY POINT OF VIEW. I could NEVER consciously do a Chapter 7. "EYE" being the key word here.
Having my debt completely wiped out because I was careless, is not me.
I was careless with credit.
Those of you with medical bills and unforseen circumstances, I feel for and I am not judging YOU for that.
So please don't judge ME for the way I feel. thanks

If you're really concerned about your conscience here's a suggestion. When your last payment is made on the Ch13 call all your creditors. Let them know that you feel horrible that they didn't get paid in full and you really want to clear your conscience. See if you can make arrangements to continue paying them, until the balance is zero. This way you can pay them in full and live without any guilt.

[DM1]

blame the mortgage co's and creditors

Let's place the blame where it squarely belongs - on the creditors and THEIR lack of conscience in granting credit just because we said "pretty please". I have often said that the banker may be your best friend, but the bank is not your friend. Think about it. And I once heard that the write-off in the credit card industry for people that default was somewhat less than 1/10th of 1% of the gross revenue. Most other industries would die to have that small of a write-off for bad debt. (Major retailers most likely have a higher percentage than that just from pilferage and shoplifting.) And then for these same workers of satan to labor so hard on Congress to change the bankruptcy rules back in '05 is simply beyond comprehension. Their just rewards are coming back to them now that bankruptcies are climbing again. The 2005 changes to the bankruptcy code was by far the worst piece of legislation written in US history. You will not see a tear from me when this industry goes completely in the toilet. Yes each individual shares responsibilty for the plight within which they find themselves, but the creditors share a bigger part and should truly be punished for pushing so many people into this level of stress. It used to be that credit was granted on the three "C's" - character, cash flow, and collaterol. For the last several years, character and collaterol have been ignored. Therein lies the problem - and the blame.

you got that right! i can't beleive that mortgage lenders and brokers are not helping home owners with these bs loans.(adjustables) instead of them making billions and billions, why can't they help us get back into a fixed loan and avoid foreclosure and have them make millions and millions. they would rather loose hundreds of thousands, than to help and take a little loss! if it was just me, then i will take full responsibility, but everyone is loosing their homes due to these loans. at the time of signing our credit so good(excellent 780) we had no buisiness getting that loan, but we were brain washed and never read the fine print. besides, who honestly understands the fine print. mr bush is doing nothing to help us out,even though you hear in the news that he is!!!

[tallberry]

I can say I take full responsibility for our position but I have to say that the mortgage companies and CC companies go from loving you to gunning for you in one swift swoop! We had flawless credit and contacted a few CC companies to see if they would allow a smaller minimum payment for 6 months so we could get a grip on things, they laughed! We had a buyer for our home on a short sale and we called to see if the mortgage co. would agree and we would sign a note to pay the difference after the closing (with perfect credit, I reiterate), they laughed! Moral of the story...don't bite the hand that feeds you. I think they got what was coming to them....just MHO!

[rrockinggramma]

It will be interesting to see also whether any of this credit crunch mess changes that BK law. I know that many congressmen and women have publically stated that passing it was a mistake but so far it is only words, no action. As the economy improves, here's to hoping it doesn't get pushed to the back burner.

[MajorMike]

Hmmm......Let me see.......If I had the option of filing a Chapter 7 instead of 5 years in a Chapter 13, what would I pick?

I'd pick a 13 hands down!!!!
It'll be off my credit 3 years sooner and I can sleep at night....

[MajorMike]

AGAIN!! I never said YOU, I said ME....Do I have to repeat myself again????

I'm sorry if you didn't "mean to offend" anyone, but, for me, it was offensive.

Do you honestly think that someone who files a Chapter 7 bankruptcy doesn't "feel bad" for filing?

I will be the first one to admit that we were careless with our credit and overspent WAAAAY beyond our means. BUT, had it not been for a $25K cut in pay for the year, we would still be plodding along, making our minimums.

I'm quite new to this bankruptcy process and don't have all of the answers, but I do know this....Filing bankruptcy, chaper 7 OR 13, is STILL bankruptcy..PERIOD. Even though you're "making payments" in a Ch13, the cc company that you had credit with is still losing money and you're still defaulting on your original contract with them.

Personally, I don't feel like I'm "cheating someone". The bankruptcy process is there for a reason and I'm not going to let someone else make me feel as if I'm doing something illegal by filing.

Good luck to you, Mike~

[MajorMike]

So Mike, if you net out your $600 car payment, it looks like you're paying $12,000 or so on your $96,000 debt. I hope your conscience is assuaged. By the way, how much was it that you screwed AmEx for at the last minute?

Excuse me but my car is 1/2 paid off. I am paying everything the trustee said to. That is NOT affecting my conscience as I even tried to pay more. I didnt screw Amex, I am paying them back.
so dont go on with your rudeness.
I made an opinion which I am entitled to! I can't sleep at night without paying SOMETHING BACK. This is JUST ME. If you can live with yourself, thats on you.

[MajorMike]

I love it!

Mike, so am I a deadbeat worthless piece of scum, because I filed a ch 7??? I guess that with your reasoning, since I did live beyond my means AND had medical bills, I'm just semi worthless. At least I can sleep at night knowing that those charges on my credit card four months before filing were for necessities, not gift cards to get me by....I'm not passing judgment, Mike, that seems to be your job.

How many times do I have to say that what I did with my credit was MY problem??? I AM a deadbeat loser......
I didnt say ANYONE ELSE HERE WAS!!!!!!
I want to pay as much of my debt back as I can. I would NEVER do a 7!!!!!!!! EYE EYE EYE!!!
What YOU do with the circumstances YOU have is NOT my concern. What is wrong with you people that you can't understand that I'm talking about ME and my circumstances which have NOTHING to do with you and yours!

[MajorMike]

I filed 7 and never felt bad. It was legally available for me and I utilized it. I plan to keep my financial situation positive and hopefully never need to go down that road.

The reason for the bk should not determine the level of guilt.

Again its not a morality issue, its a legal/financial issue.

And you shouldn't. I wasn't talking about how anyone else should feel. This is how I feel about myself. I could NOT do it. Whether you can or not is not my concern. You had to do what you had to do for yourself and your family. For me, it's not an option. That's all I said. Why people are taking this out of context is beyond me.

[MajorMike]

I love it!

Mike, so am I a deadbeat worthless piece of scum, because I filed a ch 7??? I guess that with your reasoning, since I did live beyond my means AND had medical bills, I'm just semi worthless. At least I can sleep at night knowing that those charges on my credit card four months before filing were for necessities, not gift cards to get me by....I'm not passing judgment, Mike, that seems to be your job.

What if Bankruptcy didnt exist??? would of made different choices then you did? Probably!
The money from the gift cards were to pay on my accounts to stay afloat, and that's why I had to file BK. I dont care if you pass judgment as your comments about me are irrelevant. I know that paying them back and taking 5-10 years to do it interest free is the way to go. If we didn't have BK laws, then what??? Would we have not signed up for that credit card and charged it to the limit? Would you not have bought such an expensive home?
I know crap happens, the economy sucks, the housing market drops, people lose their jobs. You have to do what you have to do. If filing 7 is what it is, then good for you! I said I couldnt do it.
If there were no 13, I'd have to work 3 jobs to stay afloat and pay my debts back. PERIOD.

[MajorMike]

If you're really concerned about your conscience here's a suggestion. When your last payment is made on the Ch13 call all your creditors. Let them know that you feel horrible that they didn't get paid in full and you really want to clear your conscience. See if you can make arrangements to continue paying them, until the balance is zero. This way you can pay them in full and live without any guilt.

Funny that you say that but I'm probably going to do that....
I actually called 2 of my creditors last week to ask them that very same question.

[MajorMike]

you got that right! i can't beleive that mortgage lenders and brokers are not helping home owners with these bs loans.(adjustables) instead of them making billions and billions, why can't they help us get back into a fixed loan and avoid foreclosure and have them make millions and millions. they would rather loose hundreds of thousands, than to help and take a little loss! if it was just me, then i will take full responsibility, but everyone is loosing their homes due to these loans. at the time of signing our credit so good(excellent 780) we had no buisiness getting that loan, but we were brain washed and never read the fine print. besides, who honestly understands the fine print. mr bush is doing nothing to help us out,even though you hear in the news that he is!!!

AMEN!

[tallberry]

Excuse me but my car is 1/2 paid off. I am paying everything the trustee said to. That is NOT affecting my conscience as I even tried to pay more. I didnt screw Amex, I am paying them back.
so dont go on with your rudeness.
I made an opinion which I am entitled to! I can't sleep at night without paying SOMETHING BACK. This is JUST ME. If you can live with yourself, thats on you.

Mike, I think it is the backhanded comments at the end of each statement of "what was good for you"...i.e. above..."If you can lie with yourself, thats on you". If that last statement (and ones like this) would have been left out, I think it would be taken less offensively. JMHO!

[rfassett]

Mortage brokers were promoting the ARMs out the gazoo because you could either buy more house for the money or cash out more on a refi. Translation - the broker makes a bigger commission. I used to sell new construction houses way back in my previous life . And I would write an ARM only if the buyers could convince me that they were in a position where their income would be increasing at a higher rate than the mortgage payment. Granted that was back in a different economy and the ARMs were structured differently. And it was always with young professionals where we could definitely anticipate increased earnings. And there was not the greed in the mortgage industry that there is today. Why would you do an adjustable rate mortgage in today's world? Sweet talking sales people - nothing more and nothing less. I would not do an ARM - and MajorMike, it sounds like you wouldn't eitehr. But I can certainly see where people have been suckered into these over the last several years. I was, in fact, trying to accomplish a refi (against better judgement) in the not too distant past, and I can not tell you how many times I said "No, I am not going to do an adjustable rate mortgage. I don't care how good it sounds to you." And some folks were so insistant that I ended up just hanging up on them. You get a better understanding of people's plights when you walk, or attempt to walk, in their shoes.