chapter 7 questions:

[suzyqpug]

Ok so here are some questions that i have while waiting to file my chapter 7.

1 - If we purchased something in may 2008 and it says no payments for 1 year - item was around 2400.00. (carpeting) can the creditor object to our chapter 7 being it is no payments for 1 year? We haven't apid anything on it.

2 - If i had a checking account that was closed in April 2008, i withdrew all my money in February 2008. I wrote out various checks to cash for 1000.00 and did 4000.00 in ATM withdrawls within days. I was trying to close out account. Now, most of that money I redeposited into our joint checking to cover bills. You can see that the deposits for various amounts were made into our joint within days after the other withdrawals. Now will the trustee question that? Or will he/she see that most of that money was depoisted into our other account to live on and to cover bills.

3. -I wrote out checks to cash but someone else signed the back of the checks to cash at there branch, wil they question that also? Most of that money from the 2 checks were deposited within days again into our other account.

4 - I am nervous about this account. We told the attorney that someone gifted this to us. and we used that money to pay bills and to live on. What will happen with that. Obviosuly, its gone. We have nothing anymore. I have depleted our savings and my childrens savings too. This is our last resort. Now we are over the median by 25,000.00. but my attorney says we can still file chapter 7. He asked us a bunch of questions and then figured on the computer and calculator and said you can do a chapter 7. Will the trustees obejct and make us do a chapter 13? We have no money left at the end of the money to pay any bills right now. We are usually in a 2000.00-3000.00 negative every month. I was able to rob peter to pay paul, But Peter is broke and Paul isn't getting any payments now. LOL

[jenopher]

We filed on a similar no payments no interest account with no problems. We had not reached the full 1 year and had not made any payments yet. They will of course be repo-ing the unpaid for items.

I would wait till 6 months past the cash withdrawal events to file, then it doesn't matter anyway.

[Help!]

Yes to 1, maybe to 2 and 3. May wasn't very long ago, and the creditor received nothing. How closely the case trustee and/or UST looks at your accounts largely depends on whether or not the presumption of abuse arises in your case (in the UST's opinion, not your attorney's).

[suzyqpug]

We actually ordered it in March but then they didn't install until May. If the trustee says abuse, which i didn't do it thinking we were going to file. I figured I have a year to pay on it. Now if they say abuse, will they close my chapter 7 then? What will that mean?

[AngelinaCat]

If I were you, I would wait at least until November to file. That puts 7 months between April when you closed that account, and the filing date and look-back period. I don't know about the carpet. They could well object especially since nothing has been paid to them.

Good luck.

[Help!]

We actually ordered it in March but then they didn't install until May. If the trustee says abuse, which i didn't do it thinking we were going to file. I figured I have a year to pay on it. Now if they say abuse, will they close my chapter 7 then? What will that mean?

Presumed abuse is just a mathematical result on the means test. In other words, if your average income over the past 6 months minus your allowed expenses produces a result that is a certain percentage of your unsecured debt, the "presumption of abuse" arises. When it does (or when the UST disagrees that it does not), your case is scrutinized. Ch. 7 cases are dismissed/converted when it appears the debtor has some ability to pay at least a portion of their debts based on the means test.

[Cali]

1. Yes, because May wasn't that long ago.

2. Yes. Why didn't you just go close the account?

3. Maybe Why did you have someone else cash the checks for you?

4. Maybe You told the attorney the money was given to you, when in fact it was your money in the first place?

[suzyqpug]

Cali -
On your answer to Number 4 - Are you an attorney? Why would you say that "Maybe You told the attorney the money was given to you, when in fact it was your money in the first place?" What the hell??? Am I on trial with you. First of all, I have no reason to lie to anyone on here, otherwise what good would it do. Secondly, people ask questions to other people on here cause they are under alot of pressure and needing information and then you come along and through in a comment like that. I don't need to be irratated by your answer, cause in fact that was your intention was to be a wise A**. Thank god your not a trustee.

I was doing ATM withdrawls because my bank had complained to me on different occasions that they need additional time when I am looking for a large sum of money - meaning anything over 1000.00. So I didn't want to have to deal with it and it was my choice to do what I want. Its legal to go to the atm machine everyday if I want.

Furthermore, I had someone cash 2 checks for me cause I was away on those days and I left 2 checks at my house for them to cash.

Cali, if you would of read my questions, the one did say that they money was REDEPOSITED into my other account. So I am not lieing or hiding anything, MANNNNNN. How irratating. Just shaking my head....

[Help!]

I think the concern is that these sorts of movements of large sums of cash (over $1000) tend to draw scrutiny. I don't know what the total of the withdrawals is (and it's none of my business). It doesn't make sense to me why you would empty out your account with a bunch of withdrawals instead of closing the account and transferring the funds to your joint account. I also don't understand why you would sign over a check for someone else to cash at their bank. These are unusual things for a person to do, and things that would really stand out to the trustee if they became aware of them.

In an effort to help you (I am on your side here!), do you have a very solid explanation as to why you did these things? Again, none of my business and I don't want to know the explanation, I would just want you to think through exactly what you would say to the trustee if they became suspicious and asked you for that explanation. Could you confidently, honestly explain the story behind these movements of money? If you have any doubts, it would be best to wait to file.

[needingsomehelp]

I think Cali was responding to the question you asked about whether or not the Trustee would object to a 7 and make you do a 13. She was saying, MAYBE, and then given you are reason why. =) Hope that helps.

[Frogge]

Suzy, I'm not trying to judge you or say you are hiding anything. I understood the response from Cali to be totally helpful -asking what you told the attorney. Regarding the account you're concerned about (I've been following all your posts) there is some confusion, on my part, at least - about the money. At one point you said you were gambling to win back some money. You are asking multiple questions about the same things, and many people have reached out with answers/ suggestions & been very straight with you. You are worried, we know this! But please back up and listen to what we are saying.

Help! is right, there are things that can be scrutinized (she would know!) and we're trying to help you see it how a trustee might.

[Help!]

I also have to ask... you told your attorney this money was gifted to you when it was really money you had taken out earlier and re-deposited? Am I understanding that correctly? If so, the most important thing in this whole process is complete and unabashed honesty. Honesty with your attorney, honesty with the trustee and honesty with yourself. Things that may seem like "little fibs" to you are enough to get your case dismissed later if they float to the surface.

[liz417]

I think Cali was responding to the question you asked about whether or not the Trustee would object to a 7 and make you do a 13. She was saying, MAYBE, and then given you are reason why. =) Hope that helps.

I read it that way too!

[fltoo]

I think you read that wrongly also. "Maybe" was the answer to your question, then Cali expanded with a question.

I also read your post where you said you paid someone that you borrowed from with those checks. Just please be careful and upfront with lawyer on those checks. I am dealing with a preferential problem right now. I just don't want you to mess up your BK as I did mine.

[liz417]

Hi Suzy!
If there are questions regarding this account, is there any reason you can't wait til Oct/Nov to file? That way everything will drop off. I'm going to reread some of your other posts and get a better idea of your situation.