Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do: (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.

Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Is American General out of luck?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is American General out of luck?

    Just to recap, we had a loan with American General and had pledged our laptops as collateral and they have a lien against them. My attorney filed a motion to keep American General from getting their hands on the laptop and I think it was successful. Am I right?

    Here is what is on Pacer.

    The motion of the above-named debtor to avoid the non-possessory non-purchase-money security interest of AMERIAN GENERAL is sustained.
    It is hereby ORDERED and DECREED that the non possessory non-purchase-money security interest held by AMERIAN GENERAL in and on the debtor's property is hereby canceled.
    It is further ORDERED that unless debtor's bankruptcy case is dismissed AMERIAN GENERAL shall take all steps necessary and appropriate to release the non-possessory non-purchase-money security interest.
    This order was signed and entered electronically as indicated at the top of the first page.

    Is my laptop mine to keep free and clear?


  • #2

    AG is really bad about having people use their "Personal items" as collateral for loans.

    They did the same thing when I borrowed some cash from them. My lawyer filed the same thing as yours and they didn't get squat.

    Makes me really wonder how their underwriting department lets them allow people to put those sorta things up as collateral. I guess when you are charging 15-25% on loans the profit margin of the ones not defaulted on must outweigh the losses associated with the ones that are.

    Filed Chapter 13 1/30/2008 Converted to Chapter 7 5/30/2008
    DISCHARGED 9/15/08
    Closed on new home 1/25/2012


    • #3
      Thanks! That's what I thought but just wanted to make sure.

      Your right they probably make enough off of the people who do pay to cover their losses on the ones who default. Of the ones who default, I'm guessing only a small % file BK. My guess would be that the liens against the collateral is used mostly to scare people into paying than anything else. If you are scared of loosing your couch/laptop/tv/whatever, you will find a way to pay to keep it.



      • #4
        Congratulations ThreadsSnapping. You have successfully avoided a non-PMSI lien!!!

        I have two of those myself, one is with American General and the other with CitiFinancial. More than likely, it was avoided because it was never perfected. I've found that most of these companies never perfect the lien (record it), so, they don't really have one. Once you file bankruptcy, they can not file a lien (that would be a violation of the Automatic Stay!.

        Also, you can also get out of these liens if they're on household goods, household furnishings, tools of the trade, and one computer, one VCR, one television, etc. (Also depends on your State exemptions).

        Good work on your lawyer keeping up with those secured creditors.

        Wish me luck with mine! American General has "allegedly" a lien on some of my computers.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


        • #5
          We had American General and they held two car Titles. Once car burned up, and the other blew an engine. They were crafty enough to send to our Trustee, not attorney, at our 341 he gave it back, a reaffermation agreement all filled out. We took it and shredded it. I think they thought when handed by the Trustee we would sign it. Nonsence. But it was a cool trick to try. 'Hub
          Last edited by AngelinaCatHub; 08-24-2008, 06:34 AM.
          If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.


          • #6
            AG also a few months after the loan, imposed their own high-priced insurance on one of the cars--not both--over and above what we already were carrying on the cars ourselves. They insisted that we pay that too--which was NOT part of the original agreement. When the first car burned, and we reported it to AG so they could file a claim on THEIR insurance, all of a sudden, this insurance was on the OTHER car! What business practices. We went around like two rabid dogs on this.

            Finally when the other car broke down and it was going to cost well over 1K for a temporary fix, we gave the car to the mechanic for the cost of the estimate. Reported that to AG as well.

            By now we were so disgusted with their lack of willingness to work with us, and so behind in payments, that we stopped trying to pay anything. This was about a year before we filed. Theirs was one of two lawsuits in progress against us when we filed. Needless to say they got stopped in the water. Then they tried to slip this reaffirmation agreement in by sending it to the Trustee. BK couldn't have happened to a better creditor!
            Last edited by AngelinaCat; 08-24-2008, 06:46 AM.
            "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

            "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."


            • #7
              AG sounds like a nightmare. Glad I've never had any dealings with them.


              • #8
                They are. They are the ones who showed up at our 341 asking if we were going to pay to keep the laptops. He was very upset when I told him that one died and I didn't have it anymore and I wasn't going to pay over $900 to keep a laptop worth $200 on ebay on a good day. But he was going to be so nice and lower it to $500 for us! I told him I could just go buy a brand spanking new Dell for $600 instead of keeping a 6 year old laptop. Do I look that stupid?

                I just looked over the claim they filed and they DID record the lien. It was done about 14 days after we got the loan. Don't know if the 10 day rule applies here as it does to cars. So whether or not it was perfected/done properly/in time is unclear.

                Turns out my attorney filed the motion to avoid a lien on household goods on 7/31 and American General had until 8/21 to respond. Since they didn't, the order was entered on 8/22 telling them to bug off!

                And as Cat said, couldn't have happened to a better creditor!



                • #9
                  A bit of a segue, but I don't understand some peoples attacks on Beneficial and American General ( ACat, ACatHub, Thread, et al). I am all for sticking it to the credit card companies that gave you credit at one rate and then jack it up, essentially forcing you into BK. But with Beneficial and company, they offer signature loans(guaranteed by personal property) at a marginal interest rate, and you were more than happy to take their money, and the details of the loan are/were all spelled out. How is it then when it is time to file bk, they are part of the axis of evil? Especially when their loans are detailed for you to completely understand before you took THEIR money. I have no problem discharging their debt along with others, but to classify them as deceiving, underhanded etc. points more toward your ignorance of the details of the loan you chose rather than their attempt to collect on a loan YOU secured with your belongings.
                  Disclaimer: I am not an actor on TV, but I play a BK Paralegal in real life. Nothing I say should be construed as legal advice, or really anything but entertainment. Please seek out professional help.


                  • #10
                    It is not what they did before we filed bk that I have a problem with, we knew what we were doing and what the interst rate was - 32% just in case you were wondering. We had an emergency, needed the money and we agreed to their terms.

                    It is the sneaky way they go about collecting afterwards that I have problem with. There was never any contact with my attorney about whether or not we wanted to reaffirm, just showed up at the 341. My attorney was just a s suprised as we were that they showed up. How many people have been confronted at their 341 and gotten scared into reaffirming because they were afraid they would have their furniture/laptop/whatever taken away? Or how many people were presented with a reaffirmation agreement from the trustee like Cat and Hub were and they thought they had to sign it and reaffirm since the trustee gave it to them?

                    Yes, a good lawyer will look out for his client and protect them but we all know that there are plenty of bad attorneys that won't and these are the people that get hurt by American General's underhanded actions after they file bk.

                    So yes, they have every right to try and I was completly ready to turn over a laptop if need be but if there is a way to avoid it legally within the bk code then I will. If the motion was denied and they did decide to come get the laptop you could be damn sure that they wouldn't get it without a Writ of Replevin and a Sheriff by their side. Otherwise, what is to keep them from saying we didn't get it and you still owe us a laptop and/or money? They may want to try and be sneaky about how they do things but I want it done legally with a paper trail and proof.



                    • #11
                      BKParalegal, I don't think that the parasitic Finance Companies are all that bad... to warrant being called the Axis of Evil. What I do think is that their scheme is not well known by people. (I knew what I was doing personally.) As such, some may think that their lending is actually predatory and/or parasitic.

                      Most folks don't understand the pledge of the personal property. So, when things get nasty, Finance Companies can come for the collateral. For some reason, folks don't seem to connect the words "pledged" or "collateral" with "secured"... like their car or home.

                      I think this is what frustrates people, because now they have attached security to something they may actually want to keep!

                      I'm sure the Axis of Evil point only comes about because these Finance Companies seem to be the most aggressive at collection that I've ever seen. I've never heard of one showing up at a Creditor's Meeting (341) to claim a laptop... that's pretty harsh.

                      But then again, as I pointed to earlier, they have local offices for the same reason. So that they can more easily collect on the debt secured by property. Much harder for that big bank in Wilmington Delaware to come to your house on that "PMSI" based Lowe's or Home Depot card you used to purchase that Refrigerator, Gas Grille, and patio furniture! And Best Buy coming to get their Big Screen Plasma back, is less likely.

                      Hence, makes the Finance Companies look bad because they have the local resources to collect on their debt.

                      I will say that you're very accurate BKPara... they are collecting on a debt one promised to pay, and pledged collateral against it. Nothing personal, just business. However, to most, it seems harsh when they are probably the most strict when it comes to collecting on pledged property.

                      To those that have these types of loans, I expect more aggresive collection on these as the economy sours.
                      Last edited by justbroke; 08-24-2008, 10:07 PM.
                      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


                      Unconfigured Ad Widget