Keeping a computer in Ch. 7? Friend of mine's vehicle repo'd by unsecured creditor!

[AngelinaCatHub]

I love that idea. A true disposable car. Can you actually leave a car on the side of the road like that and not get into any kind of legal trouble? Can you simply call the junk man and sell it for like $50?

This one answered first. Yes you can. In Florida, they will mail you by VIN an intent to tow, and then they tow. You have a month to bail it out and if you do not, they auction it. About a ticket, I have never heard of that as they have the car.

[debtmonster]

I would rather purchase a car at $450.00, and replace it when it crapped out, than have a $450.00 a month mortgage on it.

DW and I purchased at auction, a used police car, 113K on it and parked for two years. $800.00 high bid, next bid was $100.00, sealed bids oh well. I put a set of Walmart cheap tires on it, one battery a very good oil change, new plugs, and wires, one belt and that was TWO years ago and the air conditioner works great and we haven't had a lick of trouble. That equals a bit more than two payments on a STATUS SYMBOL. This car looks like it is, but runs like a fine watch, is reliable, and other than what I said I did for it, has never broken. We have 50k miles more on it in two years. If it broke down on the side of the road tomorrow, I would simply take the tag off of it, and leave the key and walk away without a loss. THINK ABOUT IT!

"Pride proceeds the fall". 'Hub

I love that idea. A true disposable car. Can you actually leave a car on the side of the road like that and not get into any kind of legal trouble? Can you simply call the junk man and sell it for like $50?

[debtmonster]

You guys keep posting as if I will keep the Bimmer. I already said MULTIPLE TIMES that I WANT to GIVE IT BACK.

We're paying $1055/mo. on both cars. By doing what "Never Again" suggested, we will have $3,000+ saved.

The thing is, WE CAN pay the cars and credit cards. But in order to do this, I have to "NOT PAY" the following:
- NOT put money away for the IRS for self-employment income
- NOT pay $350 for my monthly medical prescriptions (all needed)
- NOT pay any money to keep my home business going

I have argued with her until I am blue in the face. There is no reasoning with her. I have told her at least 100 times that we need to go bankrupt. In her mind, she thinks that we can afford everything. By her going back to her old job instead of college, she thinks she can work for $8/hr. to pay towards our $6,000/mo. in living expenses.

I found so man nice cars on Auto Trader for $3000 to $7000... as long as you have CASH IN HAND and "NOT" finance. I did a search and looked for cars like under 40,000 miles that are 5 to 7 years old and there are many as long as you're willing to drive up to 500 miles to go pick them up. I have no problem in doing that if I am going to save thousands.

Where can I go in order to do this "pre-bankruptcy" thing that you are talking about?

I need to get a good local credit counselor that I can lay everything on the line and have that person tell my wife, face to face, that both of us need to file Ch. 7.

The problem is that other people are not telling her. She doesn't trust me at all from my bad decisions. She thinks that bankruptcy is simply another one of my bad decisions and she refuses to be any part of it. So if all of her friends or family would recommend her to do it, then she would.

If you guys were a fly on the wall, you would see what I am going through. NOTHING and I mean absolutely NOTHING I tell her sinks in. There is no reasoning what so ever. Nothing that anyone here can say that I can relay will make a difference. It has to come out of the mouth from someone she knows and respects. Those people are all in South America and none of them speak English.

Come April 15 of 2009, $hit is going to hit the fan like you have no idea (actually you and I do), but she doesn't. When it comes time to pay $7,000 in back taxes and then continue paying $800/mo. taxes for next year and pay back this years taxes all together... it's going to be VERY, VERY nasty.

Where can I find some good bankruptcy attorneys that can help me file Ch. 7 even making $60,000 or $70,000/yr. gross?

[AngelinaCatHub]

I would rather purchase a car at $450.00, and replace it when it crapped out, than have a $450.00 a month mortgage on it.

DW and I purchased at auction, a used police car, 113K on it and parked for two years. $800.00 high bid, next bid was $100.00, sealed bids oh well. I put a set of Walmart cheap tires on it, one battery a very good oil change, new plugs, and wires, one belt and that was TWO years ago and the air conditioner works great and we haven't had a lick of trouble. That equals a bit more than two payments on a STATUS SYMBOL. This car looks like it is, but runs like a fine watch, is reliable, and other than what I said I did for it, has never broken. We have 50k miles more on it in two years. If it broke down on the side of the road tomorrow, I would simply take the tag off of it, and leave the key and walk away without a loss. THINK ABOUT IT!

"Pride proceeds the fall". 'Hub

[AngelinaCatHub]

We travel and need the space. I told my wife 100x that I want to give it back. I wish I could record her and let you hear the conversation. Anytime I talk about giving the car back or going bankrupt, she tells me, "I don't want to hear it. Stop talking about it."

I told her we could buy a used car for cheap and have no payments. Then she argues with me about how we did that in the past and look at all of the problems we had with getting the car repaired, having the A/C go out, having alternators go out, getting stuck 3x, yadda yadda yadda.

In one year we drove about 98,000 to 99,000 miles spread out on 3 different cars.

What I want to do is file the Ch. 7, surrender BOTH CARS and buy a nice $5,000 car. Problem is, you're not allowed to have $5,000 at the time you file. There's no way for me to hide this money. All of my income is direct deposit and the trustee would see it all in the bank statements.

So how do I have big cash in hand at the time of filing so that I can immediately go to Autotrader.com and buy a nice used car for cash the moment both of my vehicles are surrendered?

You have NO IDEA what a relief it would be to go bankrupt. I agree with most everything everybody here says, BUT MY WIFE DOESN'T and the BMW, the Saturn and lots of other debts are in JOINT.

The problem is that many things need to happen that can't.

#1 she has to agree to sign the papers
#2 we need big cash to buy a used car. No relatives or friends will loan me the money or a car.
#3 we need our gross income to be under $25,000 for the past 6 months.

Debtmonster:

I shall admit, I have not nor will I read five pages of this thread. This post of yours in my humble opinion needs you to get some backbone and really explain the facts of life to the Mrs. YOU AIN’T GOT NO MONEY!!!!!!

You have a whole forum telling you this. I could care less about the quality of some damn machine, or the status. Get me from here to there is what I want. I put 260K on a VW Jetta and keep them 10 to 15 years. (Diesel of course).

The realization of LIBERTY is at your door step if you listen to those here who not only are on their way, but have arrived and are staying to help folks like you. Your Beemer Kelly Blue Book value is far below what you owe, I will wager.

Please do not take this post as a “beat up”. Sometimes it takes a 2 X 4 to get a mules attention, (noooooo, don’t hit your wife). But you have to show numbers. There is a saying; “Liars figure, but figures do not lie”. Place your P & L in front of DW. See what your N E T is. Good fortune to you. ‘Hub

[Never_Again]

So how do I have big cash in hand at the time of filing so that I can immediately go to Autotrader.com and buy a nice used car for cash the moment both of my vehicles are surrendered?

Basically, you can do what my lawyer called pre-bankruptcy planning. It is perfectly legal, and a smart thing to do.

I purchased my used vehicle on August 17. I filed August 20. I withdrew the money to pay cash around the time of my filing. All explanable, and all legal.

How about not making the payments on the Beemer for 3 months, saving the money. It would probably be about 3 months before they come and get it. That is around $2300. See if you can put some more with it, and see what happens. Make sure that you watch the exemptions for vehicles in your state (in mine, it is 5K per person, $10K per couple.) My $4300 vehicle does have a KBB value of about $7000 (I got a good deal), so I am safe.

If you can't make the payments on your vehicles, and don't plan for the fact that someone will come and get them, you will be in the same situation, with NO planning at all. Not where you want to be!

I do wish you all of the best, as I think that everyone on this board does, and we are all just trying to help. I think that if you search deep, you will find much of what we are saying is true. You may not be ready to admit it yet. I don't say that judgmentally... I should have filed probably two years before I did... so I know about not wanting to admit it! We are just gently trying to help you in that direction. Even if you don't want to file for bankruptcy, and want to "suck it up" and pay everybody off, you are going to need a serious infusion of income to do this. Not impossible, by any means...

I think that you and your wife have some issues to address. Perhaps, before you hire a bankruptcy lawyer, you need to hire a counselor! Someone who can help you both look at what is going on here.

Either way you choose, will require you to stop making excuses, and to get at it.

And I mean no harm, or flaming with these statements. I am just saying, please PLEASE think carefully about what we are all saying.

[debtmonster]

DB,

I think your rationalization for keeping the BMW is complete horse$(it. Let me tell you why...

For my job, I drive roughly 10K miles per year alone. I drive a 1997 Honda Accord year round and for this job. This car is worth around $4000 max. I drive all over the midwest. So you state that you NEED this car because you live in the sticks? So do I and probably drive twice as many miles a year on a car that is worth 10% of the one you currently own.

Honestly..if you do file, which I think you should, a smart trustee is going to make you surrender it.

I hate to be rude, but I think your poor financial decisions currently and in the past are going to continue. I think you are just as hardheaded as your wife. Materialism is going to ruin your marriage and your life.

Truthfully, you state that the BMW is in her name alone? Stop making the payment. Period. End of story. Let them come after her.

We travel and need the space. I told my wife 100x that I want to give it back. I wish I could record her and let you hear the conversation. Anytime I talk about giving the car back or going bankrupt, she tells me, "I don't want to hear it. Stop talking about it."

I told her we could buy a used car for cheap and have no payments. Then she argues with me about how we did that in the past and look at all of the problems we had with getting the car repaired, having the A/C go out, having alternators go out, getting stuck 3x, yadda yadda yadda.

In one year we drove about 98,000 to 99,000 miles spread out on 3 different cars.

What I want to do is file the Ch. 7, surrender BOTH CARS and buy a nice $5,000 car. Problem is, you're not allowed to have $5,000 at the time you file. There's no way for me to hide this money. All of my income is direct deposit and the trustee would see it all in the bank statements.

So how do I have big cash in hand at the time of filing so that I can immediately go to Autotrader.com and buy a nice used car for cash the moment both of my vehicles are surrendered?

You have NO IDEA what a relief it would be to go bankrupt. I agree with most everything everybody here says, BUT MY WIFE DOESN'T and the BMW, the Saturn and lots of other debts are in JOINT.

The problem is that many things need to happen that can't.

#1 she has to agree to sign the papers
#2 we need big cash to buy a used car. No relatives or friends will loan me the money or a car.
#3 we need our gross income to be under $25,000 for the past 6 months.

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

Ok, quit telling everyone how you "need" to have a BMW SUV. You've had how many repos? 5?

You want to pay $740/month on one income?

That's just ridiculous.

Ok, so the beemer last 300,000 miles. So what. You could buy three used SUV's, get 100,000 miles out of each, and spend less than the beemer, both in terms of monthly payments and total paid out.

Oh, it handles like its on rails. Big deal. A lot of vehicles do.

And you're worried about the computer.

Frankly, I think your priorities are a little out of kilter.

[alicias108]

wow..

DB,

I think your rationalization for keeping the BMW is complete horse$(it. Let me tell you why...

For my job, I drive roughly 10K miles per year alone. I drive a 1997 Honda Accord year round and for this job. This car is worth around $4000 max. I drive all over the midwest. So you state that you NEED this car because you live in the sticks? So do I and probably drive twice as many miles a year on a car that is worth 10% of the one you currently own.

Honestly..if you do file, which I think you should, a smart trustee is going to make you surrender it.

I hate to be rude, but I think your poor financial decisions currently and in the past are going to continue. I think you are just as hardheaded as your wife. Materialism is going to ruin your marriage and your life.

Truthfully, you state that the BMW is in her name alone? Stop making the payment. Period. End of story. Let them come after her.

[debtmonster]

That would take a very long time for me to save up $4300. What would I drive in the mean time? We live way out in the boonies. A $500 to $1000 beater car wouldn't cut it. If you break down, you're screwed with no cellphone coverage for a 23 mile drive. So if you break down, you walk to the nearest payphone which could be 10+ miles in any direction. This is what scares me about going bankrupt and surrendering our cars.

What I would need to do is keep the car I have for 6 months after filing giving me a chance to save up to buy a used car. Then I would need additional money in the bank for any repairs.

I did the means test and passed. That was great... and I only entered our 3 largest unsecured debts as it did not leave room to enter all of them. I will probably have well over 30 to 38 unsecured accounts to discharge.

Could I just ignore them and not let them take the car after I file and keep stalling them until I get about 4 or 5 commission checks? I get paid only once per month.

[Never_Again]

http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-means-test.php?ZIP=20187&ST=VA&CBSA=47900&FEDCT=VAE&CITY=WARRENTON&METRO=Washington-Arlington-Alexandria%2C+DC-VA-MD-WV

This will take you directly to their means test... just re-enter your zip code.

You can go through the complete means test.

As for vehicles, I just purchased an SUV, full sized, for $4300. I paid cash, and I own it. It was almost redemption for me... it is the same body style and color, and only 3 years older than the one that I watched be repossessed back in March. i have a title coming in the mail, and nobody can take it! Under the direction of my lawyer, as part of my pre-bankruptcy planning, I sold a couple of items, and spent the money on this vehicle that I needed. It is exempt under the laws of my State, and I appreciate it more than the other one! Something to think about. Some people buy new vehicles before filing, because it is easier... I just bought a used one and paid cash for it.

[debtmonster]

That's a great start! Thanks for posting that link.

[bookwyrm]

debtmonster and JRScott and anyone else who may be interested...

In all of my searches on the internet for bankruptcy and means testing, I found an excellent website http://www.legalconsumer.com that gives you state by state information on bankruptcy. Also, by plugging in your zip code on their free means testing calculator it will pull up means testing information particular to your state where you can input in your numbers and get an idea where you stand. It may not be perfect as far as specialized cases and there may be special circumstances that may not be accounted for in the form that only an attorney may be able to answer for you that apply in your area but it might help give you a basic idea of where you are.

[debtmonster]

There probably is but I don't know where you can download the forms from the Bankruptcy site and then I think get most of the allowed numbers through web searches or maybe there as well.

I think all of us should share our income vs. expenses in great detail. This will help out people a lot who are contemplating bankruptcy.

I had a friend of mine go bankrupt years ago on only $8,000!!! He got into a car accident and didn't have insurance. The people sued him. He went bankrupt on them. He has no credit cards or other debt to speak of. I told him he was nuts to go bankrupt on such a small amount. Back in those days you could go bankrupt for like $400 bucks. In my case, I should have went bankrupt numerous times back in the past, but I had zero income to pay any attorney. And then when I finally did get a job, I moved, changed phone #'s and basically started a whole new life again, just without doing the chapter 7. Now I have all of those things haunting me. They aren't doing anything right now... but I bet you they are just waiting for the day I get an asset paid for in my name and then WHAM! They will slap a lien on it and come take it... and then dangle it in front of me and say, "If you want it back, pay us thousands, plus thousands more in fees and penalties and you can have it back." That's why I want to go bankrupt so bad.

I would like to program my own web page after fully understanding the logic and then allow people to enter all of their data and have it give you an answer at the end, "Yes you qualify" or "no you don't" and then give suggestions at the end. I would like to make it totally interactive since I have never seen anything of this kind. Maybe lawyers have software that do this, but it would be nice for a web page to allow the general public enter and save their data. There would be no way to tell who the income or debts belonged to, so there's no harm in people entering their income or debts. Just like all of you here, I have no idea who any of you are personally. This is all anonymous. Nobody here is posting their address and phone number or anything to personally identify them.

[JRScott]

There probably is but I don't know where you can download the forms from the Bankruptcy site and then I think get most of the allowed numbers through web searches or maybe there as well.