so angry, 341 rescheduled.

[justbroke]

maybe i wasn't clear. she said the certificate was filed and the court received it, but for whatever reason it showed that it wasn't. so the trustee sent me a deficency notice requesting it be sent by a certain date, even though they had it and got another copy of it from the lawyer after the notice was sent. the trustee neglected to enter into the docket that certificate was received by the deadline on the notice. so the deadline timed out and it appears as if they never got it.

i hope that makes sense.
i'm still trying to make sense of it myself.

Still makes no sense. Once the Court receives it, it gets docketed.

As a matter of fact, in most Districts, the lawyer must use CM/ECF (ultra-PACER basically) and must file everything electronically. It would have been on the docket!

This is why I'm very curious and suspicious.

For example, if it were docketed, but the FLAG wasn't updated... all they need to do is this:

lawyer: we sent it in, it's Document No. 18
clerk: yes, I see it... no problem.
Trustee: yup, right there.

What your story reads like is a bunch of he said/she said. It does not show me that the certificate was ever docketed.

Or, your District is just backwards and doesn't operate like the others. It just makes no sense at all. This is a base (core) document required to be filed. It's not like an insurance policy.

The key documents are the petition, debtor education, payroll advices, and tax returns. Absolutely required documents. I just don't get it.

[nullbalance]

More excuses... wow. Any halfway decent Bankruptcy lawyer knows that the Credit Counseling certificate needs to be filed with the Clerk of the Court... NOT the Trustee.

maybe i wasn't clear. she said the certificate was filed and the court received it, but for whatever reason it showed that it wasn't. so the trustee sent me a deficency notice requesting it be sent by a certain date, even though they had it and got another copy of it from the lawyer after the notice was sent. the trustee neglected to enter into the docket that certificate was received by the deadline on the notice. so the deadline timed out and it appears as if they never got it.

i hope that makes sense.
i'm still trying to make sense of it myself.

[justbroke]

More excuses... wow. Any halfway decent Bankruptcy lawyer knows that the Credit Counseling certificate needs to be filed with the Clerk of the Court... NOT the Trustee.

[nullbalance]

So I checked pacer today and my discharge and objection dates have now been extended. I've been trying to get in contact with my lawyer with no luck. I managed to talk to the paralegal and she claims that the reason this all happened was due to error on the part of the trustees assistant for not entering that my certerificate was received after they sent notice.

I don't know what to do now. I told her I wanted to talk to the lawyer and I wanted to know if I can get my 341 rescheduled for an earlier time, because none of this was my fault and I'm being punished for her or the courts mistake.

Of course I haven't gotten a call back from the lawyer or her, which means another day of phone tag.

[justbroke]

Disregarding any my prior posts or any other post which reinforces the "bring everything" mantra... let me just say this.

It is a best practice to bring everything with you to your 341 Meeting. If you are confident in your lawyer, then this may be relaxed. However, experience dictates that if there are any questions at all, even on a specific document, then bring them all. Even if you leave them in the car... you can be recalled later during the meeting... allowing you to run out and get them.

I post this not for you, nullbalance, but for others who will read this forum and the archives and wonder what the accepted practice is. Your experience in this matter helps to reinforce the needs for this practice.

Again, please... be sure to continue to press your attorney to compensate you for your inconvenience. It could be in the form of a fee "rebate" or refund or part of his fee. This would be fair. Let us know how that works.

[nullbalance]

omg nevermind!

[bkchap7filer]

"so lets get past the bring copies thing."


Ummm, you were the one in your original post that was going on about how you called to see if you should bring a copy or not, yada, yada, yada. So, you were the one that indicated that bringing the copy was in question.

You DO realize that no one has said this is your fault, right?

You DO realize that people are just trying to help, right?

You DO realize that if you had clearly indicated in your first post that you had the copy with you people wouldn't have suggested you bring it, right?

I guess you do have your mother's temper!! Sheesh....we are not the enemy...the paralegal is!!!!

[justbroke]

i could have pulled that document up on my phone and showed her the pdf as well. so lets get past the bring copies thing. the point is i wouldn't have been in this situation if his paralegal had done her job WEEKS ago instead of lying to me and saying things were taken care of.

Just so you know... pulling it up on the phone is not the same thing as submitting it to the Court. In my particular area, the 341 Meeting location is actually in the same building as the Clerk of the Court, the Courtrooms, and the U.S. Trustee's offices. (Convenient.) For me, having it and asking to just move me to the bottom of the list for the day, to be recalled, would be a smiple matter of running upstairs, and filing it myself. Don't take anything away that I or anyone else is blaming you for not having a copy there. Sometimes, the Trustee will accept paper copies in hand during the 341. That's the only reason why we mention it, and I've witnessed this personally.

However, on a Debtor Education Certificate, that does need to be filed with the Court.

I can't believe that office is that backwards and outright liars. Again, seek compensation. Apologize for nothing... you weren't in the wrong.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

Start calling every half an hour. If they say something such as.. She will not be in until X Time and why are you calling.. Just tell them. Well.. I figured you were wrong just like your office told me " MY CLASS CERTIFICATION WAS SENT TO THE TRUSTEE."

[nullbalance]

i couldn't see her face to face. i have my mother's extreme temper when i've been slighted. small mistakes i can handle, but something like this that is basically my LIFE just sends me over the edge. i would have been carted out of that office for attempting to choke the taste out of her mouth. i'm trying to wait for the lawyer to come into the office this afternoon and i'm going to call and annoy everyone there until i get him on the phone. as i said before we had the information, but the trustee wasn't willing to continue with the hearing. i figured she had enough of people not having their social security cards and drivers licenses (she made a nasty comment about it after the 3rd person showed up without it) and since both myself and other clients of his were in the same situation she just rescheduled us all. i could have pulled that document up on my phone and showed her the pdf as well. so lets get past the bring copies thing. the point is i wouldn't have been in this situation if his paralegal had done her job WEEKS ago instead of lying to me and saying things were taken care of.

[Keebler]

my lawyer had the documentation but the trustee wasn't hearing it. what kind of recourse do i have? because of this paralegals mistake, i've been set back. i lost pay at work for taking off to go to this thing. i think the secretary at the office is screening her calls because she is always 'out or on the phone' when i call. she hadn't returned my calls from yesterday or this morning. the lawyer won't be in until late this afternoon.

I hope this helps a little...

The lady before us at our 341 meeting got grilled by the Trustee with the US Trustee participating by conference call. From the discussion we learned that she was refused by a couple of local Bankruptcy attorneys before she was taken in by maybe the worst attorney in town. (Her situation was VERY questionable!)

Among the things this attorney did was to file her petition indicating the presumption of abuse! The DAY BEFORE the 341 meeting he submitted an ammended petition shwoing that she suddently had no disposable income. Later through PACER I see that he also failed to submit a signed copy of the amended petition (or something) and got a nasty letter from the court because of that too.

Needless to say, I sat at the 341 with my mouth open and thanking God we were prepared well by the Forum and everyone here. I wasn't surprised a bit when the lady's 341 was continued the next month because the US Trustee had questions and wanted more documentation.

I thought for sure this lady was going to get her case dismissed!

As it turned out, her 341 continuation didn't change the 60 day waiting period and none of the chaos really mattered because she actually got her discharge a couple of days before I got mine.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

Your nice, I would have went right from court down to the office to give her a taste of your thoughts. I would start pressuring your attorney to find out what he plans to do to compensate you for your time and travel.

[bkchap7filer]

I totally agree... bring everything with you!!!! There was a question about what to bring the other day and I was in the minority to say to bring it all with you. My rationale is that it isn't a problem to take folder in with you (isn't heavy, doesn't cost any more, etc) and there is ZERO chance you will regret taking it with. If you don't need it--fine, you don't have to use it, but you won't regret bringing it. However, if you don't take it and need it.....hello, regret! I took everything to my 341 meeting and didn't need anything but was a security blanket to have it in case I did need it.

I am truly sorry for your situation and am not suggesting you are at fault at all!! Taking it would have been overkill, but I vote for overkill.

[justbroke]

Even though I'm a pro se filer, this is why I bring everything with me every time I'm in Court. You just never know.

I'm very sorry to hear about your misfortune.

Perhaps your attorney will pay your expenses for the day, since it was his office's fault.

[nullbalance]

my lawyer had the documentation but the trustee wasn't hearing it. what kind of recourse do i have? because of this paralegals mistake, i've been set back. i lost pay at work for taking off to go to this thing. i think the secretary at the office is screening her calls because she is always 'out or on the phone' when i call. she hadn't returned my calls from yesterday or this morning. the lawyer won't be in until late this afternoon.